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Due to the current ongoing situation, the June 2020 DTCA AGM, did not take place.  We will try to reschedule for later in the year once matters are clearer.

Production of the DTCA special edition Omnisport model has also been postponed.

 

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-796 Healey Sports Boat on Trailer (1960-62)

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--23b Hotchkiss Racing Car (1935-48)

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--23b Hotchkiss Racing Car (1935-48)

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--23b Hotchkiss Racing Car (1935-48)

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-796 Healey Sports Boat on Trailer (1960-62)

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-965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck (1955-69)

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-140b and 156 Rover 75 Saloon (1951-59) Trade Boxes

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starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Dinky Toy Sales, Ordering, Promotions, Retailing etc.

Hi all,
Linking in to the great info Bruce has kindly provided in the Fodens thread, I've got a few questions that I've wondered about for years, I am fully aware that many of the answers may be lost in the mists of time.

Were Dinky retailers committed to take a minimum amount, say 6 of EVERY new release? Even re-colours on the same casting?

Were models ever issued Sale or Return? If so what happened to the returns?

Where models failed Production Quality Control, or were returned damaged by retailers what happened to them? Were they repaired? Or melted down?

Were all new models available everywhere in the UK at once?

Were Dinky products sold separately to shops, or did the Reps do Hornby, Meccano, Bayko, etc as well?

Cheers
Chris Warr.

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Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Hello Chris
You have really touched on one of my favourite subjects dealing with Dinky Toys. I can offer the following, based on contact with the son of a former Meccano agent.
1. Agents (retailers) were not obligated to stock a certain number of Meccano products. They could order whatever they judged were the needs of their immediate area, bearing in mind that in many towns, if not most towns, there was more than one appointed agent.
2. Meccano issued (and invoiced) samples of new models. For instance, a store in Herts. was issued with a sample trade pack of six 237 Mercedes Benz racing cars and a single 698 Tank Transporter Gift Set in October 1957. The trade pack of 237 cost 12/4 with the retail price per models being 3/8. The 698 wholesale price was 14/4 with the retail price being 25/11. Unfortunately, the Advice Note covering these samples is undated so we do not know when the samples were issued. But in the case of these two models, an advertisement announcing their release appeared in the 4 October 1957 issue of "Eagle" comic, so obviously the samples would have been sent out in September.
3. It appears that orders were lodged with a Meccano Sales Representative, which in the case of this store was Sales Representative Number 3.
4. Each agent ordered through their representative Meccano Magazines each month, although I presume the quantity ordered may have reflected standing orders, as unsold copies were not returnable.
5. Unsold models were not returned, as the agent invariably sold their stock, and only ordered those models that met their sales requirements. For instance, on 22 January 1957, Meccano processed an order from this Hertfordshire agent for single trade packs containing either 6, 4 or 3 models for 190, 234, 236, 252 (4 pack), 282, 405 (4 pack), 410 (4 pack), 482, 621 (3 pack), 626 (3 pack), 715. Single examples were ordered for the following: 299, 401, 430, 704, 622, 918, 934, 971 and 991. Two examples were ordered for the following: 651, 660, 905, 942 and 962. The two examples may have reflected a local need for these models.
6. I am not certain about damaged stock as this never came up, but damaged stock that did not meet quality control were handled during the production process and corrected with these limited to painting problems. The quality control process also included small individual models as evidenced by many inspection stamps on inner flaps for these. I have a photograph of a number of ladies in the factory using small paint brushes to correct minor paint problems with the 132 Packard for instance. Casting problems would have been detected prior to painting and these were then returned to the furnace.
7. As far as I am aware, in the UK, sample stock was sent out ahead of the release and these were then placed on sale when the release was announced in the Meccano Magazine or other publications such as "Eagle".(See #2 above.) As far as Australia is concerned, there was no set issue date, with models going on sale as soon as the retailer could unpack the carton from the Australian distributor.
8. Representatives handled all the Meccano products, with each type, Meccano kits and spares, Hornby and Hornby Dublo and Dinky having their own order forms.

I am sure others in the association can add to the above from direct experience.

Bruce

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janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi, yes, this subject is very interesting and complicated. There were many rather separate markets. Some models were announced in Meccano Magazine whereas they were already in catalogues of 'overseas' markets a year before. Many prewar models were disconinued in 1948/49 and some returned in 1952 in Meccano Magazine. But it seems that several of them were continuously available on some overseas markets in the period in between. Besides, presence in MM or in the catalogues is of course not necessarily the same as availability in the shops.
I made scans of an interesting Meccano procedures manual for sales representatives, from the 1970s. Over 50 pages of instructions etc. Unfortunately I scanned it in a rather unhandy format, so I will have to convert all page files. I had the idea for a long time already to put it into the document archive on this site. But ... busy ... etc. However, I hope to do this job within the forseeable future.
The cover and the index:

Kind regards, Jan

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Wonderful info thank you both.
Bruce, very interesting, I always assumed that a minimum order quantity was required from each agent. My Uncle was a Mettoy / Corgi agent in the '60's and the selling was VERY aggressive, I assumed Meccano was the same.
Jan, it's the Claims / Returns that interest me, I wonder if damaged / returned models re-issued could account for some of the timeline mysteries we come across.
Cheers
CW.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Chris
I can only go on the Sales Advices and the computer print-out that accompanied the order, in that each month the orders were different, although from the orders I have it would appear that the Euclid Rear Dump Truck and the Massey Harris and Field Marshall Tractors were several of the most popular models in the range, during 1956 to 1958 although this would not be a true reflection depending on the location of the stores; small town, large town, city/suburban.
It is interesting that the delivery advice that accompanied the order carried this notification in red at the bottom of the advice: IMPORTANT. If any portion of this consignment is missing or damaged please immediately notify us and also the carriers, as required by Regulation.
In time I will go through all the Advice and Consignment Notes and see if there is anything else that may be of interest. I wish I had obtained everything!
Bruce

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janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

"I wish I had obtained everything!"

It is such a pity that all this basic source material spread all over the world as collectors items, whereas they should have been gathered in publicly accessible archives for study and research in the course of time.
Fortunately we can use the advantage of the internet (like this website) nowadays, for making them known and accessible after all!
Kind regards, Jan

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Jan - I could not agree more with your sentiments! I often think what a golden opportunity was passed when the Richardson's procured so much in the way of ephemera from the old Meccano factory, that has now been scattered far and wide. It is also a pity when Mike and Sue published their last great tome, that more of each drawing was not included. I would have like to have seen the file notation covering changes to the original drawings included which would have enabled us to learn more about most of the wonderful models Meccano's skilled people produced. I have a number of drawings and these are excellent in compiling when changes to the original castings were underway. I even came to learn that the old 623 Bedford "Army Covered Wagon" was intended to have been numbered 153c as a result of one drawing I have acquired. I don't recall seeing this mentioned anywhere so there - that is one piece of information that is now out through the wonderment of The Net!!
Bruce

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Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Continuing with the subject of Meccano agents and some of the paperwork involved in getting models into the store, on sale and eventually sold.
This form is the Advice Note that the store/agent received based on the order form he had handed to the sales representative. In viewing this Advice Note, one can see models required but not in stock and apparently no stock to follow. Then there are those models on back order to follow, and there were two orders with "Post Order" being these would follow by post. Then there were those models available that would be sent as soon as possible by carrier.
Let me know if any of this is of interest!!!

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Hi all,
I heard that Hatton's Train shop in Liverpool bought a load of parts, skips full apparently, from the receivers at the closure of Binns Rd, and had a huge sale, any truth in it?
Chris Warr.

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Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

A typical Order Form that would be prepared by a Meccano Sales Agent, this one being applicable to orders made in mid-November 1960. The form shows all the Dinky Toys and Dinky Supertoys that were available for a store to order.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
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DTCA MemberUK

A Dinky Toys illuminated shop sign from the 1950s.

'The Dinky Toys' part is made of wood and this sign was alsomade in Hornby Dublo and Meccano versions.

I am writing an article on it for the Journal.

Dave

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

A Dinky Toys cardboard self-standing, or folded sign, similar to the one in the photograph of a display of Dinky Toys. The sign can be seen at the top of the display between the aircraft fixed to the back wall.

My sign has sat on top of my computer monitor for about 15 years just to remind me that once these were always new! Incidentally, the orange/red behind DINKY TOYS is the back of the folded card. Bruce

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dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

Dave & Bruce
Very nice signs both of you! It is wonderful to see some of the old marketing material surface, so we can see and enjoy it once again.
That tiered display in Bruce's post reminded me of my then best friend and fellow Dinky collector, when we lived in San Diego in the late 1950's....... He was out looking for any toy stores that just might be selling Dinky's, and he found one that had been, but was going to discontinue sales of them. They just happened to some sort of tiered display, very similar to that one, and it was loaded with many Dinky's......from cars to commercial vehicles. He was able to buy the whole thing for not very much......no one else would ever want it then. They were all wired down by their axles, so he had to carefully dismount them. Since they were displays for several years, they were not mint by any means, but I remember what a thrill it was for him, and he suddenly enlarged his collection by a lot. Sadly, he had no use or room for the display, so it was trashed, and about 25 years later he sold all of his collection to help fund college for his twin daughters. I still remember him telling me over the phone that his Dinky's were gone......I just couldn't believe it and was very sad. We had spent countless hours together looking at our Dinky's and displaying on his living room floor. Oh, the memories of 1957-1959!
Regards,
Terry

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Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Thanks Terry for your kind words. Actually, when I submitted my post, the DTCA website shut down and I thought it had been lost, so I was very relieved to see this morning that all is well!

How about this one? I do not think I have seen a similar item sold in recent years. And no, your computer is not reversing the image - it is a large transfer, 19cm in circumference, which would have been stuck on the inside of a shop window.

john45
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Many years ago as the Meccano factory was just closed, I visited the Mikansue shop from Richardson. Mike had a large quantity of promotional items for sale, rescued from the factory such as catalogues, cardboard signs, dealer catalogues etc...

I bought a windows transfer and a friend of mine who runned a model shop in Arnhem bought also one. He placed it on the window of his shop and after closure 10 years ago the sign was removed as it could not saved.

I kept my transfer and placed it between two discs of glass as the transfer is very thin.
So here is mine.

John.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Further to my previous post, here is my DINKY TOYS - Always New sign in its various configurations before it is put together

The sign is coded 71549/02.

Kind regards
Bruce

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

John,

I remember the Arnhem shop very well in what the Jerries left of the old town after the operation Market garden. As I visited Arnhem at least a dozen times on business, I never missed to call in at "Ottos".

Bruce,

I know that I am getting old but I do not understand this card sign which seems to be upside down. Can you please explain ?

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dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

Jacques--
My guess is that it was made to sit on a shelf or something high, so you are looking up at it, and not seeing the open top............
Regards,
Terry

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Greetings all

No prizes for guessing - leave it to the "postee"!

Jacques it is a simple folded cardboard sign, designed to sit on a counter, or stuck to a wall. For the latter, self-adhesive glue, or the remains thereof, can be seen in the above picture showing the blue side. See both ends? The elongated holes have the insert that can be seen on the white section. Once put together, the "interior" of orange is then used to highlight the DINKY TOYS lettering that are actually cut-outs.

Below are additional images that hopefully show how the sign is folded.

The last image is how the sign can be seen with the day-glo orange on the inside appearing through the cut-out letters of DINKY TOYS. Hopefully it is a little clearer, if not, come Down Under and you can see it for yourself!! :laugh: Unfortunately the DTCA website blew a fuse just when I was in the middle of downloading these images, so hope all is OK.

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dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

Bruce--
Great explanation and pictures showing just how that sign worked. And I think it did work pretty well....I like the orange behind those letter cutouts....makes is really stand out. Where and how did you happen to find that? Very neat!
Best regards,
Terry

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Bruce,

I am sorry, I am a bit thick sometimes. Now with your explanations and new pictures I understand that stuck about seven feet high on a wall your sign must look pretty good.

When you post several pictures, you do not need to use between each picture. All you need to do is place two line returns between each pictures. Every thing, pictures or text which is between (center) and (/center) is centered. I have changed [ into ( other it would not show.

All the best.

Jacques.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
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DTCA MemberUK

Hi Bruce

I also loved your extremely comrehensive, and detailed, coverage of the Dinky sign.

Furthermore, it is something I have never seen before, keep these brilliant surprises coming.

It is utterly refreshing to see something totally different from counting how many rivits something has, or does this model come with a pink and white striped baseplate, or did it come in the lesser spotted yellow box ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Thanks very much

Dave

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
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DTCA MemberUK

PS if I seem to be being sarcastic about someone who thinks he is a little bit thick.......... I AM

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

dinkycollect wrote:
"Bruce,

I am sorry, I am a bit thick sometimes. Now with your explanations and new pictures I understand that stuck about seven feet high on a wall your sign must look pretty good.

When you post several pictures, you do not need to use between each picture. All you need to do is place two line returns between each pictures. Every thing, pictures or text which is between (center) and (/center) is centered. I have changed [ into ( other it would not show.

All the best.

Jacques."

Jacques
Although I do not wish to use the word "thick", but this is what I wrote in my first post on my sign: My sign has sat on top of my computer monitor for about 15 years just to remind me that once these were always new! No where did I state the sign is seven feet up a wall - it has just sat on my monitor. (I did mention though and showed a picture of a similar sign in a Meccano display.)

As for the use of center, center to centre my pictures, I have tried to follow your advice/suggestion to make my posts look a little nicer. During my last post with pictures, the DCTA website blew a fuse, and it went down for the second time in so many weeks. Members and visitors may have seen this come up when attempting to access the site:

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
________________________________________

Has anything been added in the Forum to advise members/visitors of this problem? Interesting that the Webmaster is in Western Canada!

However, I have found my way easy of centering photographs, but will change only if it causes any problems for the site.

Bruce

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

dinkyfan wrote:
"Bruce--
Great explanation and pictures showing just how that sign worked. And I think it did work pretty well....I like the orange behind those letter cutouts....makes is really stand out. Where and how did you happen to find that? Very neat!
Best regards,
Terry"

Terry (and Dave)

Thank you both for your most appreciated words regarding my sign. Each time I am sitting at my computer, trying to think what to type, my eyes go up to the sign, perched on top of my monitor, and in no time I either think of what to type, or, get sidetracked into things belonging to Dinky Toys!! :laugh: :laugh:

I bought a small quantity of dealer selling aids from an auction conducted in Sydney a number of years ago. You will be seeing more of these in the time ahead. I would have bought the lot, except I had a fierce competitor out there who out-bid my "ridiculous" bid amounts. I scored most of mine when the seller had two of the same item for sale and no doubt my competitor picked up the second example.

The only downside, is that not long after acquiring my lots, I experienced a serious deficiency of capital for a much needed project, so some of these ended up on eBay Australia! :( :( So all I have left are just a few, but what I think, are quite nice to have! The next one to be posted is one of "the pick", and although there was only one example in the auction, my competitor did not pose a problem, due mainly to it not being 100% without flaws.

I hope I have whetted your appetites to see what is coming! :whistle:

Kind regards

Bruce

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi all, some other shop signs, cardboard, no lighting this time:


Pre-war (reproduction)


ca. 1948


ca. 1950

Kind regards, Jan

john45
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello all,

Meccano France also produced a cardboard Dinky sign pre-war. Same style as the Liverpool sign but in French language.
My sign had a rough life and I was happy to rescue this from a carpenter workshop.

John.

john45
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello all,

For Dutch market Meccano made some small cardboard promotionals.
De beste keus is The best choice.
Voor de kenners is For experts!

John.

john45
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Also available were some transfers for children. These were on a A4 sheet and could be cut to provide just one to a child.

John.

john45
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Not a Meccano item this enamel sign.
Made for the Golden Jubilee 1933-1983. seize is 20 x 25,5 cm.
Each sign was numbered.
Also printed for the exhibition was a poster.

John.

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dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

John and Jan--Thanks to you both for showing all of those wonderful signs; they so well capture the feeling of that era and are just classic...I love them. So nice that many were rescued and not all were lost to the trash bin. Hopefully some more will surface here!
Best regards,
Terry

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