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Richard's picture
Richard
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DTCA MemberFrance

--23b Hotchkiss Racing Car (1935-48)

Here are my two english models :

Below, with the french cousins badly repainted !

There are 3 differences between the french model :
The wind screen : small or large
The body's nose : flat or rounded
Two differents lettering inside the body.

Concerning the letters my photo is not good enough and I will post one later.
Cheers

Richard

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

 Yesterday I composed a post with photos of a Hotchkiss that had arrived in the post. I carefully selected photos but when I tried to upload I was repeatedly given an error message saying it was not possible to connect with the site. I kept trying but to no avail. Today I shall try again but without photos - for now anyway.

The Hotchkiss had been advertised as having pre-war wheels on a post war casting but I had my doubts and paid a reasonable 'buy-it- now' price. The wheels are indeed pre-war and by way of proof are suffering from "fatigue" and have therefore grown. The axles too are the thin pre-war type. The body casting however, despite being described as post-war, has axle holes commensurate with the thin axles not the later thicker ones so I'm pretty sure that it is indeed pre-war!

I wanted a second opinion from the forum but it wasn't to be and I eventually lost the post entirely (due to being unable to cut-and-paste but that's another story!)

So, here goes. Let's see if this will upload.

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

In case anyone was wondering, I did try to post the pictures immediately after the above post. Guess what?

Oddly, I was able to post a comment on a post that Bruce had contributed but I was unable to add to this thread. To be honest, I'm not sure that this post will fly but here goes.

These are the photos of the Hotchkiss with its thin axles and pre-war wheels. Do you agree that the holes for the axles are to small to be anything but pre-war too?

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

I am pretty sure that the original colour was pale blue or turquoise. If you look carefully you can see the faint overspray around the inside of the windows. Unfortunately the exterior has been repainted in silver so it's lost its originality in that respect but I'm pleased to add it to my collection.

john45
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello John,

No doubt this is a pre war Hotchkiss. It is worth to restore as it seems to me there is no fatigue in the body. Maybe it was original this color.

John Beugels.

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

I agree John. As you say, there's no fatigue in the casting and the (rather uninspired) all over silver repaint is nothing special. Your example is very attractive and I'm sure mine would originally have been very similar. I don't want to use a decal so I shall have to devise a stencil for a non-original number that will mark it out as a repaint.

I shall be busy when my workshop is constructed. This should happen in Spring so next Autumn and Winter will be a happy time.

Cheers

John

Bas's picture
Bas
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Dear all, below the Hotchkiss 23b's I managed to collect over the last years. I was able to buy a couple recently from the John Beugels heritage at Vectis. As far as I can see there is only one French (single image). I presume it's a repaint. Silver and red post war, other colours pre war? Take care, Bas

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Ouahhhhh what a collection. Your French Hotchkiss does look like  a repaint, the hubs should be cream.

Bas's picture
Bas
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Thank you! Also found something strange with the nr 3. The 3 must be a new sticker and ik looks like the whole car is cleaned from its paint. But this car is 1 mm shorter and lower than the other ones; it's overall smaller! Any ideas? Txs Bas

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Bas

Your striped model is postwar. Only the postwar models are marked "HOTCHKISS"

Are you sure that your racer did not bump into a wall and was shortened by 1 mm. ?

Bas's picture
Bas
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Txs! ''Nr 3'' could have bumped the wall...but it is also 1 mm lower. Difficult to shoot in comparision (see image) but nr 3 looks smaller overall. 

 

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

Hi Bas! One reason why your No3 could be 1 mm lower is that it has smaller tyres.

DavidT
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Good morning everyone, have enjoyed reading and looking at all the research that has been recorded, and would like to get my hands or eyes looking at this encyclopidia that is so often referred to.

Wandered a bit there, been looking at my Hotchkiss Racing cars and none have the doomed axels and none of the above pictures have either. The books state discontinued 1948ish so I assume that the doomed axels were introduced after that.

Been reading the information written on 23a, thinking the doomed axels introduced upon their reintroduction c1952.

David

Richard's picture
Richard
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DTCA MemberFrance

As I have shown at the beginning of this topic, the french model was produced with two moulds or imprints. Perhaps it was the same for the english one.

Richard

 

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

An unusual contemporary picture of the 1:1 Hotchkiss, from a Dutch newspaper, below:

Bas's picture
Bas
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I took some images of the sizes that from my point of view are different; the pre war is bigger then the post war and one is a lot smaller, could that be a non Dinky? The French Hotchkiss has the same size as the Made in England post war's. Photo's are overexposed to show the display better!

Bungo's picture
Bungo
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DTCA Member

A typical case of metal fatigue, I think.

 

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

Bas, perhaps a better way to measure these models is from two datum points on the body rather than the very front and rear points. I'm sure, even from the factory, the front in particular could have received a blow, just from being tipped into a bin or being tumbled to remove flashing. It would be easy to lose a millimetre overall.

There are moulded lines on the body. Add the distance from the front axle to the central line and the central line to the rear axle and see if they vary.