After following this topic in TMT I make this topic of DT 943 Leyland Octopus tanker Esso new in DTCA so that we can continue this topic here.
My 943 tanker Esso is coming out of the USA and brought some very remarkable and interesting details with it that I will research in this topic.
After acquisition of my 504 Foden tanker Mobilgas export USA I searched for a tanker counterpart, that I found in the 943 Leyland Octopus tanker Esso, also coming out of the USA. After receiving this model I was very surprised through the dual inspection stamps in the box and discovered some interesting facts about marketing of this model through Meccano Liverpool that I will explain here in this topic.
First some pictures of the real one and general notes about the introduction of this model through Meccano Liverpool and publications in the various catalogues:
It was introduced in colour on the back page of Meccano Magazine UK March 1958. It was pictured with red filler caps, but this model was always only issued with black filler caps.
Meccano Magazine March 1958 introduction of 943 Leyland Octopus tanker Esso.
USA DT catalogue 1957 with 943 tanker Esso price $ 3,00. Note the wrong model name “Foden” below the 943 picture. Note the correction price of $ 3,50 below.
Correction price 943 to $ 3,50 on 30-9-1957 in USA 1957 catalogue.
Dutch DT catalogue August 1957 with 943.
Dutch loose DT leaflet September 1957 with DT 943 (also with red filler caps).
DT catalogue UK June 1957 with 943.
Meccano catalogue UK July 1957 with DT 943.
Meccano price list UK September 1957 with model 942 Foden tanker Regent and model 943 Leyland Octopus tanker Esso * available later.
It is known that the Meccano price lists were used for updating the latest production models and prices. Was the listing of Model 943 in all general catalogues of 1957 an internal marketing mistake or just confirmed the practical execution of exports before the introduction of model 943 in MM March 1958? Was the listing in the UK Meccano price list of September 1957 with model 943 * available later and the later introduction of model 943 in MM March 1958 perhaps intended as a correction only for the UK home market?
Model 942 Foden tanker Regent stays in the UK Meccano price list of October 1957 and only in the Meccano price list UK of February 1958 Model 943 were listed for the first time with price 11/6 and was model 942 removed.
Below I show pictures of my DT 943. It came in an Hudson Dobson USA labelled export box, directly coming out of the USA. Note the dual inspection stamps in the box that proofs that this model was released and exported to the USA in September 1957, 6 months before the introduction of model 943 in MM of March 1958.
Box 943 with Hudson Dobson USA export label.
On the box is a pencil price of 3,50 written. It is the corrected price published in the Dinky Toys catalogue USA September 1957.
Here I show the dual inspection stamps on the inside of the lid box of my 943 that surprised me very much.
Inside bottom lid box 943: Dual inspection stamps: 1st E Z957 (September 1957) and 2nd Mar 1958 (March 1958).
The 1st stamp September 1957 shows clearly that this model was released and exported to the USA market before the introduction of model 943 in MM March 1958. Together with the publishing of model 943 in the USA catalogue September 1957 and the pencil price $3,50 on the box you can assume that model 943 already in September 1957 was available/were sold in the USA. All these facts confirms this statement.
The second stamp Mar 1958 in the same box is unusual and mysterious. I think that it is a fake date that suggest following the release of the UK market starting March 1958, but I leave better meanings to others.
It’s hard to believe that the publication of model 943 in all DT catalogues of 1957 was a marketing mistake in time of release of model 943 because the drawing of model 943 was finished 19-2-1957 according a picture of this drawing in the DT encyclopaedia of Jacques Dujardin. The chassis of the Leyland Octopus and the (Foden) tank were already in production (934 and 504/942) and it was only a matter of easily mounting both parts together, so model 943 could easily be ready for export to the USA market in September 1957
Comments about all of this are very welcome.
Kind regards to all of you,
Jan Oldenhuis 13-7-2017.
Surprise! Jan, although my example went quite a different track in history, it has exactly the same twofold quality control stamps inside the box lid as yours has - as you can see on the picture below. I got mine almost 56 years before you got yours, on 5 December 1961. Sint-Nicolaas (= my father) bought it in our then dwelling-place Haarlem (capital of Noord-Holland) in the shop of the ladies Akkers-Vasterman. There must be an explanation for those incidentally exactly the same dates, but I don't know which.
I will take this opportunity to share some pictures of drawings with you, as stated on page 208 of the GBofDT. The various drawings for the tank date from October 1947 already (for the Foden 8-Wheel Tanker). The pictures are not very clear, but it is apparent that there is more information to be derived from them than stated there. Remarkable that the assy job 7876 mentions a tyre change in April 1958, but I would not know which tyres replaced which.
Congratulations with this capital acquisition, Jan, with kind regards, Jan W.
Jan, I'm very happy with your comment and the picture of exactly the same stamp in your 943 box.
Your box is also an export box (The Netherlands) and could therefore declare the same stamp as the USA export box of mine. But you received your model in December 1961 and based on my assumed date of issue in September 1957, mysteriously. There is a gap of 4 years between it. Theoretically, the model at the shopkeeper might have been in stock for 4 years. But Haarlem is a big place and does not seem to me to be acceptable. But how should these stamps be explained? By the way, a nice store stamp in your box. That would have to do more shopkeepers.
I have read several explanations about stamps in this forum and therefore consider the stamp Z957 to be published as September 1957, which I explain as the date of inspection before distribution in the market. Please comment if I interpret this incorrectly.
But a model of September 1957 is not yet in the country of destination, either USA or the Netherlands. No idea how much time it takes for distribution to USA or the Netherlands in those days before the model is available in the store.
I think that I misinterpret the explanation of the meaning of this stamp in relation to the actual availability of the model in the store. I would like to see explanatory comments about this.
I still find it strange that in all 1957 catalogues model 943 already was included. I hope also to receive comments about that.
Jan Oldenhuis 14-7-2017
Hello Jan O., I remember there were at least seven shops in the Haarlem inner city selling Dinky Toys. So there must have been considerable competition and stock will not always have sold immediately. In those days already this was a good but rather old-fashioned shop, even in the shadow of the (then) big V&D department store with a great variety of new (Dinky) toys. Early Dinky collectors will remember that in the course of the1960s rather old stock was stiil 'as new' available in shops like this one, of which the furniture and displays seemed to date of the early decades of the 20th century. Unfortunately it does not exist anymore - although I have been in it in the 1990's when the ladies Akkers-Vasterman were very old and the shop furniture still the same!
I happily found this photo by Cees de Boer below, via the image database of Europeana in the Noord-Holland Archive, the sisters Akkers-Vasterman in their toy shop in 1984.
I also know that we bought - or were given - first type, old-numbered, pre-1959 French Dinky Toys in regular toys shops well into the early 1960s.
Although the distribution flows to Hudson Dobson (USA) and Hausemann & Hötte (NL) must have been quite different and separated, one must nevertheless conclude indeed that somehow your Esso Tanker and mine must have belonged to the same or a closely related batch which passed the quality control check at the same time. Kind regards, Jan
A very nice and nostalgic picture of a toy shop in the old good days. When I see this picture with those old good laughing sisters I think it was every day fun for the sisters. What's more beautiful than managing a toy store. Always nice when people need to figure out toys for their children. The sisters could become very old and always nice to have something to chat with the customers.
I understand very well that you still wanted to visit these old toy store to remember the nostalgic days that you ever got your Dinky Toys out of this store.
Here an other nostalgic picture of a toy shop in MM December 1954.
Jan Oldenhuis 14-7-2017
When I received the Leyland this morning, I went to the forum and read the concern topic.
I discover a discussion about the control dates in the boxes and so, I check my box
Here under the photo of the stamp ; I am not abble to read the letters but the numbers are 757 !
When reading my old topics, I have failed to respond to Richard's contribution and I will do this now. (It's great that remarks, even after so much time, can always be supplemented).
The stamp in the box from Richard supports my assumption that the export of this model already took place in July 1957, more than 6 months before the announcement in MM UK of March 1958. A proof that the export for Meccano Liverpool had priority.
Jan Oldenhuis, 13 February 2019.
Drawing our attention once more, Jan, to this thread, and reading the name of toyshop Akkers-Vasterman, I can show all retailers in Haarlem to whom Hausemann & Hötte delivered Meccano products in the 1930s. Akkers-Vasterman were present too already, and the department store Vroom & Dreesmann I referred to, but also J.R. Korstjens, the toyshop where we bought lots of Dinky Toys, Matchbox and plastic construction kits - and many others of course! Presently I am in the process of completing an overview of all toyshops selling Meccano products in the Netherlands, based on the H&H archives. The number exceeds 1000 shops and their whereabouts. Kind regards, Jan
Jan, this is wonderful information and still handwritten. That will be very nice and valuable for our Dutch members if you could make a list with all Meccano retailers in the Netherlands. I am very curious.
Claude Wagner is also making a list of French Meccano / Dinky Toys dealers based on the stamps on the catalogues and various other sources. The list is getting huge but of course will never be complete.