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dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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-280 Delivery Van (1945-54)

A very rare one.

This is an hybrid pre / post war model bought in a boot sale last week-end in Brittany.

Smooth hubs, white tyres and closed rear windows. It could even have been made in 1941 before the factory stopped making toys. Was the die made before or during the war ? When was the real Bedford designed ?

It is already known in red with black smooth hubs and black tyres (see Keith post February 10, 2006 above).

So we now have the following variations :
• Blue body, smooth black hubs, black or white tyres. Very first models made in 1945.
• Red body, smooth black hubs, black tyres.
• Red or blue body, black ridged hubs with smooth black tyres with roof reinforcement to attach the loudspeakers of model 34 c - 492 "Loudspeaker van.
• Red body, red ridged hubs, smooth black tyres.

Are there any more for example a blue body with blue hubs ?

goldenp's picture
goldenp
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I have two red examples, one with black and one with red ridged hubs. Both have the reinforcement for the Loudspeaker.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Three views from below:

Without reinforcement, with reinforcement and the reinforcement in use by the Loudspeaker Van.

The blue van has ridged hubs and lacks the reinforcement, so this example 1946-1947.

And some more vans.

Kind regards, Jan Werner

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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The blue van with white tyres at the top of this page has thin 1.63 mm. (SWG 16) axles. It is then 1945 or earlier.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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That is remarkable indeed, Jacques, especially if this example might have been available in France in the early war months / years.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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Jan,

I doubt that this van was imported to France in 1940 or 41. At that time the Gerries were here already and there was no importation from Britain to France except some Singer Sten guns which by passed all border controls.

It is more likely that some one brought it any time after the war not knowing how rare and interesting it is. The person who bought it last Sunday did not know either and certainly made a very good deal.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Then, despite the desinterest, the owner has taken good care for this model!

Another 280 now, a recent discovery, an ultra rare De Bijenkorf Van, of which only a handful seem to have survived in my opinion. I hope to report some more about this little miracle soon, but any comment is quite welcome now already!

Kind regards, Jan Werner

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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The numbering of this post-war van model is rather confusing. 280 was initiated when the 2nd type vans ran out of available numbers, having reached 28y (z was often used for some French models if I’m not mistaken) with the Exide and Drydex Van. The trade boxes were marked 280 and the contents went on with 280a (Vyella), 280b (Lyons/Hartley’s), etc. Pre-war type 3 models occurred as 280* only and this number is often referred to for the post-war issue. Example in the GBofDT, page 40: ‘28 (to 280) Delivery Van (Postwar)’ (no dates mentioned). On page 44: ‘280 (of 28) Delivery Van (Postwar), reissue 1945-51’. The scarce contemporary post-war printed references, like the 1948 US catalogue mention ’28’ and so do the post-war trade boxes, as far as I know.
The post-war no. 280/28 Delivery Van (3rd type) was issued in two colours, red and blue only, with smooth black hubs 1945/46 (Jacques’s example as shown above), ridged satin black hubs without loudspeaker attachment base 1946/47, the same with loudspeaker attachment base 1948/50, and with coloured hubs 1950/51. It never had rounded axle ends, like the Loudspeaker Van, which had them from 1952 on. The rear axle is crimped inside and makes removal or ‘normal’ replacement of the tyres not possible. Hence, these tyres may indicate the original tyre situation, if the front tyres might have been replaced. It is sometimes presumed that the filling in of the wheel covers over there was done in order to simplify the mounting of the rear axle.
This van belongs to the simplest Dinky Toys indeed, cast in one piece and without base plate or any other additional features to the body. It never had an advertisement. Introduced in 1940, various colourful liveries with advertisements were available for a short period. Discontinued in 1941 and mostly horribly hit by ‘fatigue’, these initial issues are quite rare in decent condition. (The De Bijenkorf Van above, being a second type van can be doubted to be a 28 or 280, as it is an unnumbered promotional). A special issue was the army green version as produced for the South-African army.

The prototype was probably a Bedford HC 5/6 cwt van, which was based on the Vauxhall Saloon H-type of 1937 – compare the criss-cross-type radiator on the first pre-war edition of the no. 30d Vauxhall. The HC van was introduced in 1938 (but, contrary to the Dinky model, of course with headlamps!). Production was discontinued in September 1948.
In the presently available October 2014 issue of Model Collector Jona Schellekens attributes the scale of 1:50 to this Bedford HC or Bedford JC van.

Some more pictures:

The first post war 280/28, smooth black hubs, this one in blue with probably original white tyres (1945/46).

The second post-war issue, with ridged black hubs and – not visible here – without loudspeaker mounting facility (1946/47). The dating is confirmed by the apparent first owner’s note in pencil inside: 24/4/47. This one in blue.

One of the very few advertisements of this van in the ca. 1948 USA catalogue, stating ‘Dinky Toys No. 28 Delivery Van’.

The third post-war issue, with the ridged black hubs and loudspeaker mounting inside, which was no doubt added end 1947 / early 1948 when the no. 34c Loudspeaker Van came into production.

The fourth issue, now finished with coloured hubs, a change which concerned the whole Dinky range in or shortly before 1950. The transfers ‘Nestlé’ on this example have been added later.

My three Dinky vans which I could use for this piece.

An inside look of the same trio, showing the change of the loudspeaker mounting inside the roof.

The rare military production.

Finally two versions of the 2nd type trade box, marked ‘28’.

As always: comments, corrections, additions welcome!

Kind regards, Jan

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Thanks Jan
One of my favourites,
Here's the Loudspeaker version.......

Chris Warr

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan--A very nice writeup on this cute little van, with the odd numbering association of 280 sometimes assigned to it. I only have one of the delivery vans, and this is another that I purchased directly from H.Hudson Dobson back in the late 1950's, for the grand price of about 75 cents I think. I have shown this before, and some folks referred to this color as a "tomato red", instead of the brighter, lighter shade normally seen. I kind of like it. Am also showing my Loudspeaker Van....just the normal variety, nothing special here!
And Chris, thanks for the wonderful picture of the Loudspeaker version!
Terry

 

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Hi Terry, I tried to replace my rather play-worn red one by a better example recently. It was described as: Model Condition: 9.8, (due to age, very minor marks on this model, no rusting or perishing to tyres, an amazing survivor, so hard to find in this condition.  There is no chipping to front or rear wings, just camera flash). I liked the model because it seemed very close to mint indeed and I like the early treaded tyres. Unfortunately the lack of chipping on the wings appeared to be due to touching the chips in on many places. The vendor was quite cooperative and it could be returned with refunding the amount paid. Kind regards, Jan 

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan---Even with a few, small touch-ins, that is quite nice, and having those very early, finely treaded tires is a real plus.....I would keep it! You and I have discussed those tires before, and what a shame that Dinky did not keep using them. I really dislike those heavy treaded, white tires they started using around 1958-1959; they look so large and out of place on the passenger cars of that era.
Best regards, Terry

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buzzer999
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This photograph appears on the website of the Liverpool Museum.

It is a Bedford van belonging to Garlick, Burrell and Edwards who were dealers in Bedford and Scammell, they were vehicle suppliers to Meccano.

Dave

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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Was there ever a 280 set of six different vans ? Any evidence ?

john45
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello Jacques,

I have several Dinky catalogues and pricelists from Meccano Liverpool.

Meccano catalogue 1939-1940 list:
280a Viyella van
280b Hartleys van
280c Shredded wheat van
280d Bisto van
280e Yorkshire Evening van
280f Mackintosh van, all at 6d.
Set 280 is also offered at 3/-.

Revised Pricelist 15 september 1939 list a set 280 at 3/6. So 6d more expensive,
The advertising on the 280 vans is not mentioned anymore in the list for vans 28.
Netherlands pre war catalogue 1939 does not list a set 280.

To see the page of the 1939-40 catalogue go to the catalogues you can find at this site with a lot of pre war catalogues and lists from my collection.
If I find a picture of a set 280 will let you know.
John.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Dear John,

Thank you for your info on the 280 vans which seem to be very very rare specially as types 3 for which I have found pictures of 280b Hartley's, 280d Bisto, 280e Evening Post and 280f Mackintosh. Vectis is very poor on this suject and boxes are not seen.

The question is : "was this set issued with type two vans only or with types three as well ?" There does not seem to be any evidence for a type three set.

Jacques.

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Hi Jacques,
Here's the 280c Shredded Wheat van I picked up this year, no fatigue, but a bit battered nonetheless!


Chris Warr.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Jacques

Is there any means whereby the two previous Threads on the 28/280 vans, the first created 9 months and three weeks ago by Richard, and a more recent one also created by Richard five months and four weeks ago, together with a Thread on 28 prewar vans created one year and three months ago by STARNI999, could be combined with this thread, PROVIDING nothing is lost in the process? All three plus this thread contains interesting information and photographs, and it is a shame one spends ages locating each thread. Perhaps the time is ripe to use a similar system to that adopted by the now defunct Talk Model Toys website, or compile an Index to ensue that when a new Thread is being considered, a member can quickly check to see if the same thread is not already in the system thus preventing more duplications.
Just a thought.

Bruce
PS
While checking through the Forum, I am sure I saw other duplicate threads as well.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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Bruce,

This is something that I can do but with the way this forum is build, it is very much time consuming, probably a full day of work and I do not have so much time to spare at the moment with the sale of my Solido collection, the garden to clean before the winter and other activities.

Please remind me some time when it is raining or freezing.

In the mean time, could you please find all the threads concerning the 28 and 280 and post a text as "PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS THREAD ANY MORE, GO TO and type a link to one of the threads.

Jacques.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

dinkycollect wrote:
"Bruce,

This is something that I can do but with the way this forum is build, it is very much time consuming, probably a full day of work and I do not have so much time to spare at the moment with the sale of my Solido collection, the garden to clean before the winter and other activities.

Please remind me some time when it is raining or freezing.

In the mean time, could you please find all the threads concerning the 28 and 280 and post a text as "PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS THREAD ANY MORE, GO TO and type a link to one of the threads.

Jacques."

Jacques
I have just done my homework!
Bruce

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

An other Maison de Bonneterie uncovered in New Zealand. Unfortunately the transfers have gone but the text remains visible with the right light. This van seems to be original.

Note that like the 29b Streamlined bus, the 60e Dewoitine 500, all the type two 28 vans and certainly several others, there is an ejector mark on the rear wheel cover.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

That is a nice discovery, Jacques!
The casting of this example is in an extremely much better condition than any I have seen before of the very few in existence!
By the way, unfortunately, this month is the last of Maison de Bonneterie's existence ...
Kind regards, Jan

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Hi all,
An amazing discovery, just goes to show what is still out there, as Jan says the casting looks excellent, wish it was mine!
Who knows a Brown Muffs or Liverpool Echo might still be out there somewhere?
Chris Warr.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Jan,

Before or the next day after the Maison de Bonneterie closes, dont miss to explore the basement and attics for any remaining tradebox (s) with 6 vans. One never knows and if one does not try, one does not make it.

Jacques.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Hi Jacques, I did already, but with no result, perhaps I should contact the city archaeologist (!). I will ask you for help when the number of full trade boxes found exceeds my storage capacity at home!

Still I intend to research the De Bijenkorf archives ...

Kind regards, Jan

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

dinkycollect wrote:
"

An other Maison de Bonneterie uncovered in New Zealand. Unfortunately the transfers have gone but the text remains visible with the right light. This van seems to be original.

Note that like the 29b Streamlined bus, the 60e Dewoitine 500, all the type two 28 vans and certainly several others, there is an ejector mark on the rear wheel cover."

Here is the other side of this rare issue:

And a view of the back doors showing the company's shield or coat of arms.

Bruce

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Wonderful! Thanks Bruce.
Has anyone ever seen a 28 Type 2 with cast open rear windows? I never have, but logic says it's possible on very early issues?
Chris Warr.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Coat of arms of the Kingdom of the Netherlands

Bruce,

On the rear doors is the Coat of arms of the Kingdom of the Netherlands because on the sides of the van it says "Leverancier van H.M. de Koningin" which means "Supplier to H.M. the Queen" if my dutch is right.

The motto of Guillaume d'Orange is in French and is "Je maintiendrai".

Jacques.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

dinkycollect wrote:
"
Bruce

On the rear doors is the Coat of arms of the Kingdom of the Netherlands because on the sides of the van it says "Leverancier van H.M. de Koningin" which means "Supplier to H.M. the Queen" if my dutch is right.

The motto of Guillaume d'Orange in French is "Je maintiendrai".

Jacques."

Thank you for that Jacques, and of course you should have known anyway! With you showing us the Coat of Arms I can now see what it really is on the back of the van.

Kind regards

Bruce

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

My contribution to the thread, in complement of the M&S Richardson books.

Cheers

Richard

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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Richard

Thanks for posting that, but even in the Richardson books there is scant attention paid to the post war version of the Delivery Van. When Dinky. Re-Introduced it around 1946 or 1947, it is clear that they used the # 28 and not #280. It appears that it has become common practice to now refer to it as a #280, although to me this is not really correct.

Terry

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