Club News

 

User login

New Comments

-508 DAF

2 weeks 1 day ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 2 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 2 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 2 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 6 days ago

-508 DAF

3 weeks 2 days ago

-508 DAF

3 weeks 2 days ago

-508 DAF

3 weeks 2 days ago

New arrivals

3 weeks 2 days ago

New arrivals

3 weeks 2 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 4 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

ORIGINAL MECCANO DINKY TOYS FACTORY BOX ART 175 HILLMAN MINX SALOON + DRAWING

3 weeks 5 days ago

--29c and 290 Double Decker Bus (1938-63)

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 6 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 6 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 6 days ago

--29c and 290 Double Decker Bus (1938-63)

3 weeks 6 days ago

--29c and 290 Double Decker Bus (1938-63)

3 weeks 6 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 6 days ago

-508 DAF

1 month 2 days ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 1 week ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 1 week ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

--62n Junkers Ju 90 Air Liner (1938-1941)

1 month 2 weeks ago

Visitors

  • Total Visitors: 1651844
  • Registered Users: 384
  • Published Nodes: 1679
  • Since: 02/23/2024 - 02:52
39 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

-934/943/944 Leyland Octopus (2)

Hi Gents,
Pleased to pick up this late Green / Yellow Wagon today.......

The mask spray didn't seem to fit very well....

Rivetted rear as opposed to pin and nut...

Am I right in thinking that the timeline for colours and wheels on this one are:
1. Yellow / Green, 1st type 2 tone, Green metal hubs.
2. Yellow / Green, 1st type 2 tone, Red metal hubs.
3. Yellow / Green, 2nd type 2 tone, Red metal hubs.
4. Blue / Yellow, 2nd type 2 tone, Red metal hubs.
5. Blue / Yellow, 2nd type 2 tone, Red plastic hubs.
6. Blue / Yellow, 2nd type 2 tone, Grey plastic hubs.
Here are the other Octo's I've managed so far.....


Chris Warr.

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA

Chris--Nice lineup of Octopus wagons that you have there. Those started coming out about the time that I stopped my original Dinky collecting, so when I started up again years ago I focused solely on the various Fodens. But those also look very nice....sorry I cannot help with the history on those. The Dinky Toys Encyclopedia probably has more info on them though.........
Terry

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

I have just looked through the past results at Vectis and they have never sold a Green/Yellow version with Green hubs, all their examples have Red hubs.

Does anyone have an example with Green hubs, I do not remember ever seeing one.

Dave

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

buzzer999 wrote:
"I have just looked through the past results at Vectis and they have never sold a Green/Yellow version with Green hubs, all their examples have Red hubs.

Does anyone have an example with Green hubs, I do not remember ever seeing one.

Dave"

Hi Dave,
To be honest I haven't seen one either. I took the info from Stewart Orr and Graham Bridges article in the old Classic Toys mag, issue 6.
Here's their table, it's the third one down........

Lokking at it again this variation is listed with a rivetted back, so that would make it a later issue than the first red hubs version, if it exists at all?

Chris Warr.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

I think it is a myth, I would really love it if someone could prove me wrong.

I think I have spent the last few years searching for something which does not exist.

Dave

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Thinking you are right Dave, I was sure I'd seen a picture of one, but having just gone through all my books and mags, no luck. Ramsey's list it, Mike and Sue say red hubs only. If Vectis haven't sold one, and no one here has one, I'm betting it is indeed a myth.
I has always presumed it was the first version as it would follow the Foden wagon in having the hubs match the rear body.
In some ways it's a good thing if it proves not to be real, as I can remove a Dinky from my wants list without spending a penny. :laugh:
Chris Warr.

jackh
Offline
DTCA MemberIsrael

Do not burry it too fast...With Meccano, everything's possible... :laugh:

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Not a wagon but a tanker. Although I do not like too plastic Dinky Toys, this one came along so relatively cheap and nearly mint recently, that I could not let it escape.

And I must admit that the tanker body could not be more precise and smooth in zamac.

Still, like the excellently made childhood Tractor-Trailer McLean, with its complete plastic trailer cover, it will remain an exception in my 1934-1959 collection.

Kind regards, Jan

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Lovely condition on those pair Jan! Gorgeous.
I'm not too keen on the later stuff either, but extend my collection to 1964 to let a few nice ones creep in!
Plenty of hub / chassis colour variations on the Shell BP too, the black wheels version always looked strange to me, but was probably quite accurate.
Chris Warr.

Fred7A
Offline
DTCA Member

I like the Shell BP tanker, despite the plastic tank. The most annoying feature for me is those fragile labels.

I was comparing my two examples recently and noticed that my white-chassis version has the slots at the back of the cab (for locating the other bodies) cast over. Presumably this change was made after the other Octopus variants ceased production, as the slots would no longer be needed. My grey-chassis example has the slots open.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Mine is also a grey chassis version with the open slots.

Dave

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

For comparison:

Fred7A
Offline
DTCA Member

That's interesting, Jan. If the base was changed for the Shell BP version, is there any reason for the slots at the back of the cab to be left open on any of the Shell BP tankers? Were any wagons or chain lorries made with this base?

The second question is, why were the two rear tank slots filled in but not the other four?

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Fred, this photo is taken from a better angle. Now you see that even three slots have disappeared!

Both for the Foden (in late 1948, when the tanker was introduced) and for the Leyland these slots were applied, for the fixing of the tin tank with its six lugs only. They had no meaning for the other loading platforms, and not for the plastic tank, which had no lugs but had to be fixed by two screws.
In my opinion they have not deliberately been filled on this late Leyland model, but - because of their uselessness - they have just been ignored and not maintained, so that flash could easily make them disappear in the course of time. One would expect that early Shell-BP tankers show the nine holes and that gradually the later examples showed more and more holes filled by flash (or may be the pins of the die, causing these holes to be free, just broke off and were not repaired or replaced).

Kind regards, Jan

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

This was my 944 after I cleaned it.

It had been in the house of a very heavy smoker and literally was brown.

As the tank is retained by two screws this was a straightforward job. I stripped and carefully washed it and it was fine, the labels need to be kept dry as they are paper.

Dave

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

As you can see, Dave, all stickers of your copy have been positioned above the dividing of the two halves, which enables a riskless demontation. Mine have been pasted over this seam ('correctly' in my opinion), which would make such an action rather tricky for the survival of the stickers! I see both examples showing either the first or the latter position. Regards, Jan

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

You are absolutely right here Jan.

Due to the vehicle need a very serious, and thorough, clean if the stickers had been over the seam I would not have bought it.

Dave

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Good info on the rear cab slots Fred, never noticed that before.
My Corn Products Tanker has no chassis slots at all, but still retains the rear cab slots.....

Chris Warr.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

That is very intesting to know, Chris! This lacking of the previous slots adds to the evidence that the Corn Products tanker is a very late casting version of the Shell-BP tanker and not a design of 1963! As Jim Hurley puts forward in his very interesting article (DTCA Journal of October 2012, page 11), it must have been a much later creation, of about 1973.

In my opinion the confusion has risen because of the dating of the drawing of this model, which is 5-3-1963. However, this is no doubt the date of the original Shell-BP drawing, the basis, a copy of which was used for making a new drawing for the Corn Products tanker, without changing the original date. It was not important, being no official, regular Dinky Toy after all.
Regards, Jan

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Hi Jan,

Where does that put it with regard to Fred's white chassis tanker with the filled in rear of cab slots though? Presuming that the slots were filled in as a final variation that makes Fred's white chassis Shell BP newer than my Corn Products?

Here's a full view of the underside, I would really love to tie down once and for all when this was made.

Chris Warr.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

You bet it was about 1973, just read Jim's article and add the 'slot evidence' to that. As the regular tanker was discontinued as late as 1970, it is well understandable that the last batch of these was without the slots too. This does not contradict that the Corn Products promotional was made a few years later. Still, old stock of cab/chassis castings may have mixed, and the tank slots may have shown flash, more or less, every now and then. More often at the end of the production than in the beginning.
Regards, Jan

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Perhaps I was a little bit too quick in my reply. Indeed I did not take into account the slots behind the cab. Although old stock might have been used, this cannot exclude that indeed the regular tanker lasted longer than the moment of production of the Corn Products tanker, so possibly not too long before 1970. Jim's example of the Corn Products tanker was donated about 1973, not necessarily produced around that year. Still, the closed slots underneath keep supporting the assumption that the Corn Products tanker was made far later than 1963.
Kind regards, Jan

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Hi Gents,

I find this topic really fascinating, so I had a look at some of the other Octopi, and realised something I had never noticed before,
there are two different types of plastic hubs, the one with the cast in vents around the rim, and the one without.......

Correctly I presume, the Grey chassis Shell BP has these hubs fitted to the front wheels only.

Seems to have been pretty random though, as the red hubs chain lorry has a single solitary vented hub fitted to the nearside rear, all the others are none vented.......

Anyway, more to the point, by the time of the grey hubs chain lorry the vented hubs have gone completely, the red hubs chain lorry shows chassis slots......

The grey hubs chain lorry does not.......

So the only other model I have that has the combination of open cab rear slots, none vented hubs, and no chassis slots is the Corn Products tanker........

Chris Warr.

Fred7A
Offline
DTCA Member

Wow - there have been a lot of posts here lately - it's great to see the forum so busy!

Here's a photo of the bases of my two Ocotpuses - sorry the quality isn't brilliant. The grey chassis has two base slots open, and the rest are filled to a greater or lesser degree, although they are all still visible. The tinplate base is gloss black and the wheels all have vents.

On the white chassis there is no trace at all of the slots, and the ejector ring marks are different too. The tinplate base is matt black and the wheels all have no vents.

The more I look at these, the more differences I find!

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Cheers Fred,
It is good to see lots of new posts here, I've taken the plunge and won a white chassis Tanker, so when it arrives I'll see how it compares with yours. All these variations at least tie down some kind of timeline as to when these were made.
Chris Warr.

Fred7A
Offline
DTCA Member

Well done Chris, I look forward to seeing pictures when your new tanker arrives. I find it quite fascinating to see how various details changed over the production life of the model.

starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Hi All,
My new Octupus Tanker with the white chassis arrived today, not as nice as Fred's, but still looks good in the cabinet...

Exactly the same as Fred's too, all none vented hubs......

No chassis slots at all.....

And, rear bed slots cast over....

By my reckoning this makes this one of the last Octopi, I need to get the black hubs and red hubs versions now though!
Chris Warr.

Fred7A
Offline
DTCA Member

Thanks for the pictures, Chris. I wonder if all white chassis tankers have this same casting with no slots at all? I saw a couple of grey-chassis tankers at a recent swapmeet, and I think one of those had filled in slots at the back of the cab (I didn't look at the base).

Here is the rarest Dinky Shell BP tanker! :laugh: It's rather a mess, and the tank is too long for the chassis, despite having been shortened. Perhaps twin rear axles would help. I'm not responsible for creating this, and it was a freebie so I shouldn't complain. Maybe one day I'll try and improve it.
:laugh:

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Two nice tankers.

The last 'classic' Dinky 8-wheel tanker from March 1958. After this they were fitted with plastic petrol tanks. On the left is mine on the right is one belonging to a friend.

Note the positioning of the ESSO logo on the side of the tank. On mine it is slightly higher, on the other it is positioned centrally. I wonder if the move to lift it slightly was to stop it rubbing on the box?

Dave

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Dave, do both sides show the same deviation? Have you ever seen any other example with this 'lifted' Esso band? I have not.
If they do exist this could indeed point at an attempt to improve the protection against box wear. However, yours having regular diecast hubs would mean that all (later) plastic hubbed tankers should always have the 'improved' lifted band, which they do not have in my opinion.
I believe it's just an 'innocent' flaw. But let's await comments from others ...
Kind regards, Jan

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Hi Jan

Both sides are the same height so if it is an innocent mistake/flaw it has done a great job of protecting the decal against rubs on my model.

At the time of taking the photo I had not spotted the difference, it was only when I got it into the computer that I saw they were not identical.

As you say hopefully we will get more comments.

Dave

Pages