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janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56
--63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Dear all, I wonder if the cotter pin, which is familiar for the pre-war Gliding Game, should be present with the no. 63 Mayo Composite Aircraft.

On my example the pin is missing and I cannot remember having ever seen one with my own eyes or as an illustration.
In fact, I think it's rather tricky to suspend this combination to a wire with the pin attached to the top of the Mercury, the Maia itself being only rather loosely clamped to the seaplane on top.

Kind regards, Jan Werner


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buzzer999
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Joined: Sat, 01/24/2015 - 12:39

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

The Mayo Composite is my favourite Dinky aeroplane and I do not remember seeing either a MAIA or a Mercury fitted with a gliding game support.


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buzzer999
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Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Further to my previous reply I had a look at Vectis old auctions and found the one shown below:

Dave


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janwerner
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Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Thanks Dave, for the quick action!
Still a little bit tricky to have the whole combination dangle on a swinging wire, the small plane lifting the big one!
There is nothing left for me but looking for the missing cotter pin ...

Kind regards, Jan Werner


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buzzer999
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Joined: Sat, 01/24/2015 - 12:39

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Hi Jan

There was a discussion (I think on talkmodeltoys) about cotter pins some time ago.

They are not easy to find - they never seem to come up on e-bay.

Dave


grwebster
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Joined: Wed, 12/31/1969 - 18:00

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Jan, that's an interesting question that never occurred to me.
I have had several examples of both boxed Mayo Composites and single, loose examples over the years.
I have never seen or found the Maia with a cotter pin but have had one loose Mercury with one.
This makes sense as both toys were also sold separately, the Maia in its own box, and the Mercury in a trade box of 6.


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Dinkinius
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Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 22:38

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

There have been a number of 63 Mayo Composite Aircraft sold through Vectis containing gliding instructions. If the set was designed not to be used for this game, the question remains, why include the instruction sheet? Gliding Game instructions were included in sets sold 10/10/06 (subject of Dave's post), 16/1/07, 9/9/08, 22/11/11 and 17/4/13.
However, what is interesting are two lots sold on 17 August 2011:
Lot 2656: Dinky No.63 Mayo Composite Aircraft - comprising Flying Boat Maia and Mercury Seaplane - both are silver, with red tinplate propellers, some fatigue cracking to front of fuselage to the Maia otherwise Good examples still with their gliding game holes and tinplate clip in a Good early box dated 1-39 and card insert.

Lot 2657: Dinky No.63 Mayo Composite Aircraft - containing Maia Flying Boat and Mercury Seaplane, both have gliding game holes and tinplate clips, some fatigue cracking to the front of the Flying Boat fuselage otherwise Good in a Fair to Good card box with insert dated 1-39.

Note the reference to tinplate clips. Of course the clips could have been added later, but there is still the question of the leaflet.

The clip can be seen on the Mercury as per the picture Dave downloaded although with the above image "borrowed" from Vectis, I am not sure about the wire (rubber band?) things below the model.

Jan
The close-up photo of the 63 you attached shows what appears to be scratch wear around the gliding hole in Maia caused by something (clip?) being inserted and removed??

Bruce


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janwerner
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Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Bruce, I believe there is enough evidence now that this couple was definitely sold with pin and leaflet.

The little scratch you're referring to is better visible on a photo than with the bare eye. I don't know if it's significant enough to witness use of a cotter pin there once or twice. May be one former owner tried, but one cannot expect much success because of the bracket bothering such an attempt.
May be it's just my example that has such a losely clamp connection between Maia and Mercury but I will not attempt to bend anything of the clamp under the secondary plane.
By the way, I do not have an example of the loose Empire Flying Boat to compare, so it's a mystery for me if the bracket mounting incisions on top of the wing are cast of have been 'cut' afterwards. I do not dare to manipulate anything there in order to investigate the solution chosen.
No doubt John is our best expert here.
Finally, have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYtazEBQ1K8
Best regards, Jan


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Dinkinius
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Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 22:38

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

janwerner wrote:
"Bruce, I believe there is enough evidence now that this couple was definitely sold with pin and leaflet.

The little scratch you're referring to is better visible on a photo than with the bare eye. I don't know if it's significant enough to witness use of a cotter pin there once or twice. May be one former owner tried, but one cannot expect much success because of the bracket bothering such an attempt.
May be it's just my example that has such a losely clamp connection between Maia and Mercury but I will not attempt to bend anything of the clamp under the secondary plane.
By the way, I do not have an example of the loose Empire Flying Boat to compare, so it's a mystery for me if the bracket mounting incisions on top of the wing are cast of have been 'cut' afterwards. I do not dare to manipulate anything there in order to investigate the solution chosen.
No doubt John is our best expert here.

Best regards, Jan"

Jan
My point exactly - gliding holes, pins, instructions, so the attachment to Maia must have been well secured, and the gliding game went on, the query of which was first raised. Thanks for looking at yours closely. I do not have a prewar Empire Flying Boat either, as I am rather nervous about spending hard-earned cash on something that in most cases are slowly deteriorating.

(Off the topic here, but why is it the 62g Flying Fortress is apparently relatively immune to fatigue? I have three in my collection with two others that came and went and none suffer from any fatigue.)

However, thank you so much for the link to the marvelous Movietone Newsreel of the development, first flight, separation, and flight across the Atlantic of this unique combination. What a wonderful tool is Google, as on viewing your link had I bothered to look for it earlier, there it was! One of these days I am going to have to find a better replacement for my Mayo, complete with gliding pin and instruction sheet!
Best regards, Bruce


john45
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Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Jan and Bruce,

I am lucky to have several 63a Maia with boxes in my collection.
All have the tinplate bracket connection for the Mercury. Note that this is a double folded piece so under the wing of Maia one is folded to the wing and the other to fuselage. This creates a very solid construction as you have to use some force to press the Mercury on the Maia.
On my drawing for the Empires there is no note for the holes to hold the tinplate. However the holes edges are very square and not drilled, so in my opinion these were cast. It was cheaper and gives a better fit in stead of round edges. The Maia still has the gliding hole but this makes no sence as you cannot use the gliding pin because of the tinplate bracket.
In set 63 Mayo composite you can find Maia 63a with and without gliding hole.

I have found 3 boxes for 63a Maia. Two are boxes with text only on top of the lid. The third box has a diagram of the Maia with text. The tinplate bracket is drawn on top of the plane.
Boxes:
BW 4577 1M 2-39. (1000 made Februari 1939)
BW 4920 1-5M 3-39,
BW 7922 2-5M 12-39, box with diagram.
It is possible that in 1940 boxes for 63a Maia were made, but I did not find one until now.

Text on lid: Dinky Toys No.63a, Flying boat Maia. Number of box A 2252.
A realistic model of the huge Flying boat that forms the lower component of the famous Mayo Composite aircraft. It is similar in general arrangement and construction to the Empire Flying boats, but it has on its back a special superstructure to wich the upper component, the Seaplane Mercury, is locked when the composite aircraft takes of.

The Maia box 63a is not very common. One reason can be that the Mayo composite 63 was cheaper then Maia 63a and Mercury 63b together.
John.


john45
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Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Jan and Bruce,

I have to correct some I mentioned above. The tinplate mounting is just folded to the wing and not also to fuselage. I examined today with daylight and found that the piece at the fuselage is residu of casting. I can also see that the slot was a separate insert in the die so not drilled. See the picture.

John


john45
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Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Further on the boxes for Maia No 63a.
First box with text printed on lid.

John.


john45
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Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --63 Mayo Composite Aircraft

Second type box with diagram of the Maia Flying boat.
This box dates from December 1939.

John.