User login

New Comments

-470 Austin Van 'Shell-BP' (1954-56)

2 days 5 hours ago

-470 Austin Van 'Shell-BP' (1954-56)

2 days 6 hours ago

-470 Austin Van 'Shell-BP' (1954-56)

2 days 9 hours ago

New arrivals

4 days 52 min ago

New arrivals

4 days 4 hours ago

New arrivals

4 days 9 hours ago
Hi,

New arrivals

4 days 11 hours ago
Hi,

New arrivals

4 days 11 hours ago

New arrivals

1 week 6 hours ago

-558 Citroën 2cv AZAM 1961

1 week 8 hours ago

New arrivals

1 week 11 hours ago

-470 Austin Van 'Shell-BP' (1954-56)

1 week 21 hours ago

New arrivals

1 week 1 day ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 3 hours ago

--24y and 540 Studebaker 'Commander' (1955-1960)

2 weeks 3 days ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

2 weeks 6 days ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

2 weeks 6 days ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 2 hours ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 19 hours ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 20 hours ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 1 day ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 1 day ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 2 days ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 2 days ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 3 days ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

3 weeks 3 days ago

-146 Daimler 2.5litre V8 (1963-67)

3 weeks 4 days ago

-146 Daimler 2.5litre V8 (1963-67)

3 weeks 4 days ago

-626 Military Ambulance (1956-65)

4 weeks 21 hours ago

The Southern California branch of the DTCA is meeting!

4 weeks 1 day ago

--24y and 540 Studebaker 'Commander' (1955-1960)

4 weeks 1 day ago

--24y and 540 Studebaker 'Commander' (1955-1960)

4 weeks 1 day ago

-555 and 955 Commer Fire Engine (1952-70)

4 weeks 1 day ago

--24y and 540 Studebaker 'Commander' (1955-1960)

4 weeks 1 day ago

-555 and 955 Commer Fire Engine (1952-70)

4 weeks 1 day ago
28 posts / 0 new
Last post
dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 16:49
--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

There is a third base plate. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture. A better one will be welcomed.

Jacques.


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)


Slightly better, but not by much.

This baseplate was a result of the re-numbering that took place in 1953/54. 23e Speed of the Wind became 221 and a new, mottled baseplate with model-name and model-number (still 23E!) was attached, following the same design pattern as the new 23-series Racing Cars (Alfa, Ferrari, HWM, etc. ...)
Regards
Walter


starni999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK
Joined: Thu, 07/09/2015 - 01:19

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi all,

I've got to confess that I don't really like racing / record cars, they're OK, but I always preferred stuff I could see on the street, so how to explain that 23e SPOW was always one of my favourite Dinkys?

Don't know, but here are two pre wars and a post war...

Neither Pre War has a base sadly, but racing No backgrounds are white and silver.

CW.


dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 16:49

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Walter,

Many thanks for the picture which is not so bad after some Photoshop treatment.

Jacques.


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi all, I checked my silver post-war examples of the Speed of the Wind and these are the results (top-down = earlier-later).
Note the differences in hub colours, tyres, axle ends, base plates and shades of brown of the driver.

Remarkable to see that the mid example's base plate holes do not exactly match the positions of the rivets.
Kind regards, Jan


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Until I found the all red with silver wheels no. 22e Speed of the Wind (below) recently, I wasn’t aware of the possible combination of an (old) moulded base plate with (new) round axle ends. In my opinion the round axle ends exactly coincided with the new flat base plate, as re-introduced in June 1952 (see MM of that month). This one must be a kind of early 1952 hybrid, preceding the ‘official’ new silver one with red hubs, grey tyres and flat base plate, which was available from 1952 to 1956 (later no. 221, still always marked 22E on the base plate).

Trying to present my five post-war examples in chronological order I took into account that:

Darker brown driver precedes lighter brown driver.

Black wheels precede coloured wheels.

Herringbone tread tyres precede black round tread tyres.

Black round tread tyres precede grey round tread tyres.

Moulded base plate precedes flat base plate.

Crimped axle ends precede round axle ends.

Which produces the chronological top down and right to left order 1-5, from older to new:

 


dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA
Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 23:27

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

    I just received a very nice early post war version of this record car, and am very excited to share it.  I bought this a couple of weeks ago, and when I saw it listed, I made a quick decision that I had to have it, as it was a bit unusual.  It has to be a very early issue right after WWII as it has both smooth wheels and white herringbone tires.  Another likely early indication is the driver....most of these I have seen tend to be tan or light brown in color.  This one is black, and I am sure it has not been re-painted.  The overall condition is very good, with some surface wear and a few chips, but I am excited to find another nice post war example of the 23 series of racing cars.

     Best regards,  Terry

 


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi Terry,

here is another 23e Speed of the Wind with black driver, this time with the post-war ridged hubs and black herringbone tyres.

Regards

Walter


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

After the initial provisional picture you sent to me, it's nice to see these various detailed pictures of your very interesting and unusual Speed of the Wind, Terry! I was not aware of the existence of a driver in black before. Kind regards, Jan 


dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA
Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 23:27

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Jan----Thanks so much for your always appreciated comments. I do believe that this model had to be made very early, after production resumed following the shutdown during WWII. The white herringbone tires are likely left over pre-war stock being used up, and I am guessing the black driver was also short-lived, then changed to tan or brown shortly after. I am really glad that I saw this and quickly bought it.
Best regards, Terry


john45
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hello,

One of my friends bought a Red Speed of the Wind at the November Sandown swapmeet. It was much heavier as my own models. So we weight it and the weight was 84 grams were a standard model is 58 grams. The model was sold as being lead by a well known dealer. I know that many pre war models were made from lead but this was  unknown to me. As I have the original drawing of the model in my collection I was able to bring some light in this.

On the drawing, Job no 10255 you can read material zinc-base alloy. There is a issue 4, change order 3379, date 12-3-52, alternative material. A second Job no can be found on the drawing as 10255A, material lead-alloy grade 2. During Korean war there was a shortage of zinc and other metals so Meccano used alternative metals such as Aluminium, Vulcan and Studebaker tanker, and also lead alloy for a short time. From the drawing and the baseplate we can conclude that this model was produced in lead-alloy only for a short time, probably only in 1952. I include some pictures of the model, colour red, silver hubs and black baseplate. As far as I know the Speed of the Wind was not produced in lead before 1940. If anyone also has this model in lead please let us know. Possible more models were produced in lead-alloy.

The drawing of the Speed of the Wind can also be found at the Forum, search drawings.

John.

 

 


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi John, a very nice, surprising find, some evidence for the fact that indeed in that very period several experiments with different metals were done. The colour finish of the one you show is exactly the same as mine, shown somewhere above. And I dated that one on 1952 indeed, which complies with your findings and the drawing information available. This means that even within one finish batch this different use of metals might occur (mine has the regular zamak weight). And this colour combination is not common anyway. Now waiting for other 'heavy ones' to show up indeed and see if this one is a single incident / trial or one of a limited 'sub-batch' ! Kind regards, Jan 


dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA
Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 23:27

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

John----A very interesting find, and as Jan pointed out, verifies that Meccano was likely struggling some with Korean War metal shortages, and trying alternatives such as this. So nice that you also have the drawing to verify with!
Best regards, Terry


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi John, just saw your comments and pictures on your lead 23e Speed of the Wind.

I have the same in my collection, same color scheme, same weight, same ingredients of an early 50s issue: ridged hubs, rounded axle ends, baseplate without the two little "angel wings" behind the rear axle, round DINKY SUPERTOYS tyres.

But the funny thing is; on my model the baseplate has been mounted the wrong way, meaning the differential is under the front axle! Most likely a mishap, since the rivets are no doubt original. How about your model?

Regards

Walter


john45
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hello Walter,

I checked the baseplate of the lead Speed of the Wind at my friends collection as it is not mine. On that model the differential is under the rear axle as it should be. So your model is for sure a factory error and thus not common! Nice find.

John.


dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 16:49

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hello all,

 I am back again but not in very good condition.

I have started to look at the questions on the forum and can make some cmmentts on some of them. If the speed of the wind was cast in lead there is no reason why the other cars of the 23 series were not. Has somebody the drawings ?

I would welcome a large copy of the front wheel drive speed of the wind and it's base plate.


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hey Jacques, are you back?
Walter


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi Jacques,

so glad your back.

Here are two pictures of my front wheel drive 23e Speed of the Wind.

Happy?

Best regards

Walter


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hello Jacques, you managed, welcome! if I can help you, please let me know. Kind regards, Jan 


john45
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 04/07/2015 - 14:07

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hello Jacques,

Nice to see you here again. We have missed you too long. Your comment on Dinky matters will be very appreciated.

regards John.


Dinkyman's picture
Dinkyman
Offline
DTCA MemberSweden
Joined: Thu, 07/09/2015 - 08:58

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Dear Jacques,
Happy to see that you are back in business! Hope you'll get better soon!
Ragnar

(Sorry if off topic!)

 


dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA
Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 23:27

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Jacques---I also wanted to take the opportunity to welcome you back.....hope to see more of your contributions again!
Best regards, Terry


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Browsing in the special 'Collection Gérard Dulin, 1000 pièces d’exception' issue of Collectoys, by Philippe Salmon, I came across another leaden Speed of the Wind in the same red/silver colour scheme on page 110. So, John and Walter, your examples are no 'incidents' anymore, but they do apparently belong to a certain (small?) batch of leaden Speed of the Winds. Although this book is a very nice and reliable reference work, this very Speed of the Wind is believed to date of the period 1936-1938, which cannot be correct in the light of evidence already mentioned by John and also by the mere fact that the specific combination of hubs, axles and axle ends cannot be dated earlier than 1952. Kind regards, Jan 

P.S.: Sorry not to have seen Jacques since his recent comment here, 29 March!


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Thanks, Jan, for your comment. Further evidence regarding the production date of the leaden 23e Speed of the Wind can be found on the factory drawing (see publications/documents), where march 1952 is indicated as the date for the use of alternative material (lead alloy).
Regards
Walter


binnsboy650
Offline
DTCA MemberUK
Joined: Sun, 10/02/2016 - 07:35

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi All,

Here is my latest acquisition. An early 23e with the 'peened in' base plate. The body is very good with no obvious fatigue although the wheels are suffering a little. The tyres are non-original as far as I can tell, they have no tread but an obvious mouding mark around the circumference. The paint is as you see not great but the racing number panels, and one of the numbers, are still evident.

I was the only bidder on the well-known auction site and got it for a very reasonable price. It's not great but I'm very pleased to have it.

 

John


janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Somebody must have had great fun playing with it, John!

It is striking that on such an early one a model name is still wanting, down below, at the rear. Kind regards, Jan 


Bungo's picture
Bungo
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Wed, 07/22/2015 - 07:39

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Hi John,

the 23e Speed of the Wind was introduced in May 1936 (Meccano Magazine), first without racing numbers, then with racing numbers, like yours. Take good care of it.

Best regards

Walter


binnsboy650
Offline
DTCA MemberUK
Joined: Sun, 10/02/2016 - 07:35

Re : --23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

Thanks Jan, do you know when the name was introduced?

 

Walter, thanks for that information. I was delighted with it when it arrived as it was even better than I imagined it would be. The baseplate is not damaged at all apart from a small scratch and some rubbing on the engine sump and differential. The body edges and the ridge on the tail are still crisp and the nose and tail show no damage so whoever played with it they treated it gently. I, on the other hand, remember how badly I treated my Talbot Lago in the school playground. 

This one I SHALL look after.