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janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

-887 Muir-Hill basculeur automoteur [Muir-Hill Dumper Truck] (French assembly, 1959-1961)

The French assembled Muir-Hill Dumper Truck of mine shows an odd combination of reference numbers. Cast in it says: 562, embossed in the base plate it reads: 887, and on the box there is the new number: 962. This assembly, made in Bobigny, was officially available for a rather short period: 1959-1960. Before, the French imported the British no. 562 - but packed in their own French box. After, the French resumed importing the British one, now no. 962, and this one was packed in the regular British box. In the French catalogues this and other subsequent imports from Liverpool were indicated with the suffix 'L'. So, the Muir-Hill was referred to in the catalogues as 962L.

The French assembly differs from the British as the base plate, hubs, tyres, colours, axles, driver and washer under the front bogie are concerned.

For me it is hard to understand why 562 (officially renumbered to 962 in 1954) was still cast underneath and I don't know if every French Muir-Hill has this 562 cast in. Was it old stock of castings that were shipped to France at the end of the 1950s or wasn't the cast in number  changed either on British stock by 1960? (I have no example of this Dumper Truck from that time slot). 

Then the box. I bought model and box many years ago already, together, from a French vendor. I think I can even confirm that they have always been together, because of the offset traces in the box and both box and model are in 'as new' condition. Could it be that the French ran out of their (own, new) 887 boxes and borrowed some stock from the British to pack them in? There is a dated quality stamp inside, see picture. Is that a British stamp of a French?

I hope for some comment! Thank you in advance and kind regards, Jan  

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

I hope I can contribute something to answer your question.

My 887 model is the same as yours and I think that it is the typical French model with the black rubber tyres instead of the grey iron cast tyres. Only the box of yours is different and in my opinion is yours a British box, the renumbered British box from 562 to 962. You can conclude that through the different pictures of the tyres on your box and my box. Your box shows the grey cast tyres and mine the black rubber tyres. Also the text on your box is English and on my box French.

I think your stamp in the lid box is a British stamp and mine is a French stamp. I can conclude that, because I have two French boxes 25o with similar red French stamps. See the pictures. I think that your model and box don’t belong to each other. Jan, looking once in your storage boxes. Did you the model and box not changed by accident?

By the way: In these kinds of questions we still miss the expertise of Jacques Dujardin. I am sure he had an answer at this question. Without our French colleague members to want to do too short.

We will meet soon each other.

Kind regards,

Jan O

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Jan, thanks for your comment. I certainly was aware that mine is the later 962 British box. And I did not swap boxes.  Yours is correct anyway. I just wonder if the French ran out of their own stock of boxes and borrowed some British stock. But I agree that the quality control stamp would be an anomaly in this case. Glad to see that your French 887 also shows the old British 562 number cast in. Remarkable to see the French use of the regular Meccano tyres. If others can show any deviations from what is shown here, please do! Kind regards, Jan W

CaddyEldorado
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DTCA Member

Hi Jan W

Just to confirm that my 887 is exactly the same as yours with the 562 cast in and with box details exactly the same as Jan O's.

Kind regards

Mark

 

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Thanks for confirming this, Mark! Kind regards, Jan W.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

To replace my 887 Dumper Muir-Hill I bought a new one because the washer to fasten the rotating driver is missing. When I turn round the model, the driver falls down.

When I unpacked the model I discovered that the front hubs of the new one are concave instead of my other one with convex ridged hubs. I did not know that. When I went to consult Roulet I saw a picture in the book with 2x 887 and apparently also with different front hubs although it is not clearly visible and he does not speak about it either. I add also pictures of the different base plates and both lid boxes with the different French Quality Control Stamps inside. I presume that the one with concave front hubs is the later one.

Jan Oldenhuis, 11 April 2018.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Yes Jan, the concave hubs are the later. Concave hubs were introduced in France in February 1960 on the Renault Floride 543.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Jacques, thanks for the confirmation.

Jan O.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

My previous model of this French assembly dumper truck was packed in a British box, as demonstrated above. I finally decided to replace it by an example in the correct French box. It arrived today, from Paris, its original place of assembly sixty years ago. It is a really superb example, virtually mint with the tyres having the same familiar rubber smell as when opening the box 'in the old days'. Even the box is as new, sturdy, without damage. My previous example was equally nice, but the painted surface was quite 'gritty' on many places and this one's is perfectly smooth. Its official availability was quite short. Roulet states 1959-1960 but the 1961 French catalogue shows the same French assembly, no. 887 still. Lateron the French returned to importing the British 962, in the original British box but with a suffix 'L' in the catalogue reference. I added a picture of the actual models to the 1961 catalogue page. As scales is concerned they are completely incompatible, as the dumper has the 1/35 scale, whereas the other commercials are 1/55 and the roller is 1/43. Kind regards, Jan