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Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38
Original or Carefully Modified?

I have created this new topic under Technical Discussions dealing with my 196 Holden Special Sedan as I could not find an existing Topic dealing with the subject that I wish to open for discussion, “original or carefully modified”? I also have another model that has to be carefully scrutinised.  

Lot 411 of the John Kinchen Collection auctioned a few months ago by Piers Motley Auctions in the UK was for a “Dinky 196 Holden Special Sedan in all metallic copper without white roof and rare white interior, boxed”

Reading this description, and being aware of the collector who once owned it, as well as being a model based on an Australian car I decided to place a bid, or two, and eventually won it for a very reasonable price. The description mentioned a “rare white interior” which intrigued me apart from it being “all metallic copper without white roof”. The model in its original box arrived with the others I had won on 14 July, and since then, I have been endeavouring to ascertain whether it is a genuine factory error or a very careful modification of an original.

The “rare white interior” turned out to be the normal very pale duck-egg blue interior, (some might even say the colour is more very pale green than blue) but what of the roof?  It should have had the usual white, but a careful examination of the bronze surface reveals quite a number of tiny pinpricks in the bronze paint work with these containing a white substance.  These pinpricks in white seem to be concentrated towards the back window as well as some white in crevasses above the windscreen, back window and along each side above some of the doors having the appearance of white paint. My puzzle is whether these pinpricks in white and the crevasses also in white are paint residue - or polish residue that could not be polished out which has hardened over time?

Is there any means whereby an upper colour (such as the white found on the 196 Holden) can be carefully removed by some form of paint stripper without seriously affecting the bottom colour, bronze? Careful examination with a jeweller's glass does not reveal any minute scratches associated with the use of an abrasive substance nor serious loss of paint by some form of liquid solvent. A careful inspection of the base plate show’s a sticker with John’s accession number and more importantly, the rivet that is untampered.

However, after careful scrutiny of the model, I am of the opinion that it has been altered, most likely by John, but how did he do it without causing any real damage to the bronze?? I am including some images that would enable our members to judge for themselves as well as provide some feedback on how this was done.  Somehow I am hoping that it is polish residue not wishing to accept the real truth!!

The floor is open for any and all opinions and learned critique!

Bruce   (150)

20160924/985/1109

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 06:56

I did some asking around, Bruce, but no solution yet ...a mystery. It's judged virtually impossible to remove the upper layer without somehow attacking / damaging the basic layer in any way. Kind regards, Jan 

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38

Hello Jan

Many thanks for asking around your circle of friends in the hope of coming up with a solution.  I delayed replying to your Post as I was hoping there would have been comments from others, as I am quite certain the association has many members who are very experienced in carrying out high quality restorations and would have been able to offer an opinion.

I have never encountered anything quite like this before.  If the upper colour has been very carefully removed, it would have taken a considerable amount of time and I have to ask myself - why go to all that amount of trouble in the first place?  Why not obtain a very well-played with example, and restore it as a single bronze colour.  That would have made more sense.

So, I am still in limbo whether it has been carefully modified or not, but I cannot thank you enough for asking around.  I hope others will be able to offer their opinions!

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

20160929/993/2153

 

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dinkyfan
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Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 05:27

Bruce.....I haven't chimed in as I have zero experience with both that model and restorations, but from what you and Jan describe, it would appear unlikely that someone did that.......extremely difficult, and for what reason? I am guessing that it is another strange Meccano happening!
Best regards, Terry

CaddyEldorado
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Joined: Fri, 08/21/2015 - 11:08

Bruce, I did recently tackle a Corgi Heinkel Bubble Car in orange finish which had been treated to some super-detailing, including a roof painted in black.

I tried using T-Cut (paint restorer - I'm not sure whether it's available outside the UK), but I found that this is too aggressive on raised areas such as door handles, where it removed the orange paint as well as the silver super-detailing.

However, using a cotton bud and working on small areas at a time, I did successfully remove the black paint on the roof to leave a good layer of the orange paint beneath. The only slight problem is that there is a ridge around the edge of the roof and the orange paint was removed from this ridge.

I'm not sure how effective T-Cut would be in removing the Holden's white paint, but I suspect that working methodically and carefully, it might be possible.

Kind regards, Mark

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dinkyfan
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Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 05:27

Mark----Is there any way to carefully remove silver super detailing, usually on raised edges, such as door handles, etc.?

       Best regards,  Terry

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38

Terry

Thanks for your Post #4.

Mark

Many thanks too for your most valued comments #5 above. I presume T-Cut paint restorer would have been available to John Kinchen, the original owner of the Holden in the 1960s to 80s?  John spent most of his life in Bedhampton, Hampshire with easy access to Havant and no doubt, Portsmouth.

I have one question.  Would T-Cut work just as effectively on baked enamels?  The models produced by Meccano went through a baking process following which the enamels would have become extremely hard and less likely to be susceptible to knocks and bangs.  Models in two-tone would have been put through the same baking process twice to ensure the secondary colour adheres completely to the primary colour. This process also made the job of later day restorers a little harder, if not extremely hard in removing the enamel when a complete re-paint was the order of the day.  

Thanks to the Internet, the following is a description of baked enamels that were used by Meccano on all of its products:

After application, the product is exposed to heat in an oven for a specific amount of time, allowing the VOC's to be eliminated and the paint to cure, and form a durable finish. Baking enamels (or baked enamels) are amino resins with increased chemical, UV, and abrasion resistance over their air-dry cousins. They are very durable finishes primarily used on metals.

The black on your Corgi model on the other hand was no doubt applied by brush or air spray and may not have been given a baking process and simply allowed to air-dry. Could it also have been subjected to a heating process to cure the paint?

However, your thoughts are most appreciated as T-Cut might very well have been used by John over a long, careful and protracted process.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

20160930/994/1258

micromodels's picture
micromodels
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Hello Bruce and all,

I have had a few 'goes' at removing extraneous paint and find that nail varnish remover works well usually as long as it isn't overdone.   It is also good for reviving faded paint such as reds. 

Going back to the Holden, the hardest areas to remove paint is from recessed areas and ridged areas (as Mark had found ).  Have a look at Bruce's photo along the top of the windscreen and rear window frames, where it seems to have been scraped to get rid of the vestiges of the off-white (cream) plus the small dots of white which are probably in small pitys in the casting.

Of course, the question is why would John or anyone else want to change the roof colour?  The colours are original Holden.

Ron F

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38

Thanks Ron

As mentioned in my first post, I was very much aware of the white residue in all the areas you mentioned, but was uncertain whether these were paint or polish that had hardened, as the surface of the roof did not have any appearance of any substance, solid or liquid being used to remove the original white paint.

I then went onto state, "However, after careful scrutiny of the model, I am of the opinion that it has been altered, most likely by John, but how did he do it without causing any real damage to the bronze?? I am including some images that would enable our members to judge for themselves as well as provide some feedback on how this was done.  Somehow I am hoping that it is polish residue not wishing to accept the real truth!!"

It is the "how did he (John) remove the white paint without causing substantial damage to the bronze paint underneath" that is the real crux of my "need to know!"

Mark has mentioned the use of T-Cut, and from you nail varnish remover. I presume great care has to be used with nail varnish remover, and this care has to be extended right across the surface of the roof. It is a pity that John left us with this slight dilemma, although many will think that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, and they may be correct!

However this exchange of views and possible suggestions that others may take on board with their own partial restorations.

Bruce   (150)

20160930/997/2058

fodenway's picture
fodenway
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Joined: Sat, 07/11/2015 - 07:44

It seems fairly obvious that this Holden was originally the standard two-tone issue, the main question being as to the method of paint removal used to achieve the all-bronze look. The white pinpricks left testify to the fact that Dinky castings were often far from smooth, with some horrendous mould lines and pitting being evident on many examples.  Besides T-Cut and other equivalent products used in the automotive refinishing trade, there are several other ways to remove layers of paint. All require a great deal of very careful, patient work but can achieve good results. Staying with automotive products, some very fine wet-and-dry abrasive papers are available down to 1200 grit (nominally 1200 grains per linear inch) or even finer,  which can be used for the initial removal. Use plenty of water and soap with the paper, and sand  lightly and carefully until the primary colour just starts to show through the top coat. Tissues or a fine cloth can be used to wipe very quickly with acetone (nail polish remover) or  MEK, (methyl ethyl ketone) , a solvent used in the plumbing trade and also sold under various brand names as a solvent adhesive for plastic model kits. Use these solvents very sparingly in a well-ventilated environment and do not let them come into contact with plastic parts - they will melt!. Various household metal polishes also have their uses, and Jeweller's Rouge is an effective mild abrasive. As with any technique, proceed with caution, follow any safety advice and practice first on an old model if possible. MEK- type solvents are also very effective for removing tampo-printed liveries and details from more modern die-cast models.