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Dinky Toys photography specials (cont...)

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janwerner
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OK then, I'll compensate for that by posting the no. 142 Mark X, a childhood Dinky Toy of my brother's (an older photo not really suitable for this photography specials thread):

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buzzer999
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Seeing Richard's French Dinky Car Transporter in the 'Dinky of the Day' thread inspired me to get mine out.

Here it is with some Citroens being loaded aboard

Dave

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Richard
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Beautiful indeed Dave.
I see that you are well equiped in french Dinky !
Your Unic is the first type.
One of these days, I will open a new thread about the Unic Boilot ref. 39A and 894
I need some times to take the photos.
Richard

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dinkycollect
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Thank you Richard and David to have posted pictures of your Unic / Boilot car carrier.

There are a few variations on this model and David's is the second type :

The very early one had a rivet to attach the coupling's steel blade. Later the rivet was cast under the chassis and then was not visible any more near the fifth wheel. It had ridged hubs.

The next type had concave hubs on the prime mover and ridged hubs on the trailer.

Next again had concave hubs on all axles.

The last variation had windows.

Some of the trailers had a letter "Y" cast near the front wheel; some had a dot after 39A and some had a boss below the rear ramp. What is not known is which trailer goes with which lorry. Could you please show the underside of your trailers and Richard, which are the hubs on your semi-trailer.

It must also be mentioned that contrary to the drawings on the catalogues and the Meccano Magazines this model was never made in light blue, the wind screen was always in two parts and the crank on the trailer was always on the right hand side.

Richard and others, if you go to Orléans tomorrow, I share a table with Claude Wagner in hall B. Please come and visit us.

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dinkyfan
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Jacques--To follow on to your very nice discussion of the Unic Car Transporter and its variations, I am posting pictures of mine as well. It is a lovely model and I was always impressed with the complexity of its construction.
Terry

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And Dave, to followup your nice showing of the transporter with some Citroen's, here is another view with some more with those lovely French cars..........
Terry

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buzzer999
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Hi Jacques

Here is the underneath of my 39a

Today is the first time I have ever studied this model in detail, it is truly impressive.

Dave

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janwerner
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FRENCH LADDERS

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micromodels
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When introduced by the Toyman in the June 1956 issue of Meccano Magazine, it was stated that the transporter had 'Royal Armoured Corps' signs which are the red and yellow diagonal ones (you can make them out on the illustration on the back page, etc. That was wrong and it was changed to the Royal Army Service corps of yellow and blue, so only the first few Antars had the yellow and red.

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Thank you very much for this confirmation. I always had the idea that this initial mistake was scarcer than the regular one.

Here they are once more, as depicted on my calendar for this year. By the way, apparently the box change took place by November 1956. Kind regards, Jan

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buzzer999
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If you refer back to thread #1543 of 4 months ago this was discussed in some depth and I showed the definitive answer to this conundrum then.

Dave

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This is another very nice series of French Dinky models, the 3 Panhard based trucks. These were first introduced around 1952, with both the Kodak and SNCF versions, followed by the Esso tanker in 1954. The yellow Kodak truck was only made 3 years, and was discontinued in 1954. Both the SNCF and Esso versions soldiered on until 1963, with a re-numbering in 1959. Although these were not Supertoys, they were nice sized trucks with brightly colored liveries. I especially liked the Kodak, in its bright yellow paint, and it is by far the most difficult to find in nice condition as they always came in trade boxes. I was most fortunate to find this in a glass display case at a large department store in San Diego around 1958-1959, and it still has the price marked in grease pencil on the bottom....$2.50!

Terry

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dinkycollect
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Terry your Kodak is the rarest of the Kodaks because it is a variation available in the US only.

The letter a of kodak was different from the normal issue. This was probably to comply with the Kodak logo of the time.

A cross piece had been added below the axle of the trailer. This was not a reinforcement which was not needed but to improve the flow of metal in the warn die.

This was the last Panhard artic made, the trailer with this cross piece was not available anywhere than in the States, it was produced at any time after 1963.

Note that the second letter of the reference refers to the colour of the model. J for jaune for the Kodak and B for bleu for the SNCF.

The actual SNCF trucks were mechanical horses with a Scammell coupling.

You have a very nice set anyway.

Jacques D.

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buzzer999
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As a photographer I have wanted one of the Kodak versions of this lovely vehicle for years but they are so expensive. I will keep looking and WILL have one someday.

Dave

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buzzer999
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Jacques, I have just seen your post. What is the difference between the French and the American Kodak Panhards?

Dave

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dinkyfan
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Jacques--Here are a couple more photos of the Panhard Kodak.....one is a close-up of the Kodak decal on the side, and the other is of the web you spoke of on the bottom.
And Jacques, do you know why the Kodak version was produced for such a short time? I believe Roulet's book seems to mention something about Kodak, so am guessing that maybe it was a licensing issue they could not agree on? I also know that Roulet's work is subject to some doubt, and I do not speak French, so am hoping you can add something to that.
And Dave, good luck on finding one of these. I also posted a picture of the Panhard alongside its smaller brother, the Bedford Kodak van.............

Terry

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Richard
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Hi Terry.

Look at mine and compare the letters of "kodak"

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Richard
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Terry,
just a little comment :
1)your SNCF is the last version of the 32AB.
2)your ESSO is the first version of the 32C. (big wings)
3)your Kodak is the US version. That's mean that this type was only manufactured for export sales.

Cheers

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Richard
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For fun :
The SNCF in the first version (look at the logo)

The Esso in the last one (concave hubs)

And all the ESSO family

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Richard
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Once again problem with the photos .
I already ask if somebody can explain to me how register several photos in the same message ! still waiting for an answer.

SNCF 1st version

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Richard
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ESSO last version

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Richard--What a nice collection of Panhard Esso tankers....very nice, and you seem to have all of the varieties. I see very few of the Kodak versions come up for sale....and when they do, they are usually quite pricey. Is that your experience over there also?
Below is a photo of my French Ford Truck in the SNCF livery.....the logo of this early 1950's truck looks just like your early Panhard.
Terry

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Hi Richard, I am rather clumsy in that too, and there must be a better way (which I also would like to be informed about), but I do it by submitting the subsequent picture files one by one, not altogether, because then happens what happened to your (nice) picture of the various Panhard tankers. So, submit a picture, wait until it has been uploaded, then press the edit button and resume by submitting the next picture, and so on. I hope this helps. Whoever knows a better procedure may tell, for the benefit of us all! Especially Dave Kaun might be able to explain better than I do.

Kind regards, Jan

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Several questions have to be asked and answered.

This is the main differences of the transfers : thicker black line surrounding the letters and different drawing of the letter "a".

Atlas has issued in May 2011 a copy of the US version which may be found on eBay at a lower price and better conditions that a genuine Dinky Toys.

Terry has already posted a picture of the web which is specific to the US variation.

In his book of 1982, Roulet only writes that the Kodak finish was chosen for the US because the S.N.C.F. was unknown there. This is what he thinks, is there any evidence ? He also writes in both his books of 1982 and 2012 that the logo was applied by silk screen, I think that this technique is un-appropriate for mass production and that it was applied by silicone tampoo. He also writes that this model was available for a few months in 1953 but it was advertised in the 1952 catalogue as available from October 1952.

The reason for such a short production run is unknown, as Terry sugests it may be a licence issue. There was probably only one batch made and when Kodak saw the wrong logo they canceeled the agrement. Note that this is only a supposition and not a fact.

Richard, I do not know the variation of the tanker with "big wings". Could you please explain and provide comparative pictures ?

There is a fourth Panhard artic, it is a copy with the web under the semi trailer made in Japan by Marusan Shoten Ltd. It is easyly recognisable from the French model bcause the spare wheel is on the other side.

I hope that I have answered everybodys questions, if not please ask again.

Jacques.

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Thanks for that Jacques.

I wonder if this explains why it was not in the catalogue for very long. Eastman Kodak have one of the most recognisable logos in the world. My first job was seven years in the photographic trade and I went to Kodak's main office in London on some training courses, they were absolutely fanatical that their trade mark was used correctly.

The logo above was scanned from a 1962 leaflet and the 'a' is like the one used in America on the Panhard.

If Dinky France used one that was not EXACTLY CORRECT Kodak would have been extremely unhappy, they were one of the biggest companies in the world at that time and had incredible influence.

I think there was a fall-out between the two companies.

Dave

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Richard
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Hello Jacques.
I was talking about the different types of decal's wings of course.
Here I have somme old photos.

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Richard
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Richard's picture
Richard
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You can also compare the letters on the rear decals

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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Excuse moi Richard, je pensais aux garde boue.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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It's pleasantly busy here!

Some special photos in relation to the Tracteur Panhard avec semi-remorque citerne 'Esso':

And finally in the company of its never born British articulated brother:

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