User login

Club News

Due to the current ongoing situation, the June 2020 DTCA AGM, did not take place.  We will try to reschedule for later in the year once matters are clearer.

 

New Comments

New arrivals

10 hours 4 min ago

New arrivals

10 hours 4 min ago

New arrivals

10 hours 47 min ago

--30g Caravan trailer (1936-50)

1 day 5 hours ago

--23g, 233 and 208 Cooper-Bristol Racing Car (1952-64)

2 days 46 min ago

--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

4 days 23 hours ago

--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

5 days 1 hour ago

--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

5 days 3 hours ago

--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

5 days 4 hours ago

--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

5 days 6 hours ago

The Journal.

1 week 1 hour ago

The Journal.

1 week 5 hours ago

The Journal.

1 week 9 hours ago

--39d Buick Viceroy Saloon (1939-50)

1 week 21 hours ago

--39d Buick Viceroy Saloon (1939-50)

1 week 1 day ago

-998 Bristol Britannia Airliner (1959-65)

1 week 2 days ago

--27b and 320 Halesowen Harvest Trailer (1949-71)

1 week 2 days ago

--27b and 320 Halesowen Harvest Trailer (1949-71)

1 week 2 days ago

The Journal.

1 week 3 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 3 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 3 days ago

The Journal.

1 week 4 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 4 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 4 days ago

--27b and 320 Halesowen Harvest Trailer (1949-71)

1 week 4 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 4 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 4 days ago

-480 Bedford 10-cwt Van 'Kodak' (1954-56)

2 weeks 2 days ago

-480 Bedford 10-cwt Van 'Kodak' (1954-56)

2 weeks 2 days ago

-480 Bedford 10-cwt Van 'Kodak' (1954-56)

2 weeks 2 days ago

-571 and 971 Coles Mobile Crane (1949-66)

2 weeks 3 days ago

-571 and 971 Coles Mobile Crane (1949-66)

2 weeks 3 days ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 6 days ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 6 days ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 6 days ago

Visitors

  • Total Visitors: 1630254
  • Registered Users: 232
  • Published Nodes: 1528
  • Since: 11/19/2020 - 21:33
18 posts / 0 new
Last post

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

This is a presentation in pictures of the Dinky Toys 24 C Citroën DS 19 till 530 Citroën DS 19 and DS 23. It covers the whole range of Dinky Toys Citroën DS Berline from 1956 – 1978 in one topic (not the DS 19 Break and DS Présidentielle).  It was issued in the sales numbers: 24 C, 24 CP, 522 and 530.

The Citroën DS 19 is a very beautiful car. A real eye catcher on the road. In French you should say: Une voiture très élégante. It is revolutionary in design and technical aspects. There is a lot to say about the total development of design and technical model specifications through the years of the real Citroën DS but I leave that to others.

I start with pictures of the first introduction of the Citroën DS 19 on 6 October 1955 in Auto Salon Paris. Many years of development went to the original concept in advance. The whole car world looked forward to the presentation of this revolutionary Citroën DS 19 and of course the photographic Press was there.

The photographic Press around the introduction of the Citroën DS 19 on 6 October 1955 Auto Salon Paris.

Auto salon Paris October 1955 introduction Citroën DS 19 for the public

Auto salon Paris October 1955 introduction Citroën DS 19 on a rotating platform.

Auto salon Paris October 1955 introduction Citroën DS 19 on a rotating platform.

Auto salon Paris October 1955 introduction Citroën DS 19 on a rotating platform.

The 1st Citroën DS 19 1956 on the road. Note: Had not yet exterior mirrors.

The 1st Citroën DS 19 1956

The 1st Citroën DS 19 1956. Note the smoke plume from the exhaust of the running engine to hold the position of the Hydro pneumatic suspension.

Poster of the Citroën DS 19 1956. Note: Had not yet exterior mirrors. (By courtesy of ikonoto.com)

Dashboard Citroën DS 19

Technique Citroën DS 19

Hydro pneumatic suspension: Blue: Nitrogen gas; Gold: Hydraulic fluid under pressure from engine-driven pump.

Introduction Dinky Toys 24c Citroën DS 19 on back page French Meccano Magazine December 1956

Introduction Dinky Toys 24c Citroën DS 19 on back page French Meccano Magazine January 1957

Introduction Dinky Toys 24c Citroën DS 19 in French Meccano Magazine December 1956

English translation of the above French text in MM December 1956:

From reality to miniature.

CITROËN "DS 19”

Impatiently awaited and demanded by the collectors, the Citroën DS 19 sees the day in the series of "Dinky Toys". Its undeniable success will compensate for the delay that technical problems have brought to the release date. Now she's at your toy store, you can ask her.

The very special look of this revolutionary car is remarkably reproduced. Equipped with chrome wheels and white tires, the DS 19 comes in two colors: ivory, eggplant roof, and green, ivory roof (these are the Citroën series shades). It is equipped with a dashboard and a rear track. The finest details are faithfully rendered: fineness of the windscreen posts, trumpets of the flashing lights, curve of the front bumper ...., etc. In the Dinky Toys collection, the DS 19 bears the reference 24 C. It is reproduced at 1/43, which gives it an overall length of 112 mm.

1) Question: Can anyone something tell about these technical problems to the release date of Dinky Toys model 24 C?

I wanted to have a first and a last issue of the Dinky Toys Citroën DS 19, so I acquired a DT 24 C first issue without windows and a last issue of DT 530 with windows, opening boot and bonnet. To illustrate the struggle for live of the Dinky Toys Meccano France brand I also acquired a DT 530 Citroën DS 23 made in Spain by Auto-Pilen in the period 1976-1978. This is a very beautiful car with double silver glittering headlights, black grooved Dunlop tires, red metallic paint, black matt roof, cream interior and black steering wheel. A beauty on display.

I show pictures of the Dinky Toys models with their various boxes and how they are pictured in the various catalogues.

Dinky Toys 24 C Citroën DS 19 (without windows) together with 24 N Citroën 11 BL Traction Avant in French DT catalogue April 1956

My Dinky Toys 24 C Citroën DS 19 without windows. (11/1956-1957).

Dinky Toys 24 C Citroën DS 19 without windows.

Dinky Toys 24 C Citroën DS 19 without windows. Note the new feature: open dashboard with Citroën chevron and the open hats shelf.

Base plate Dinky Toys 24 C Citroën DS 19 without windows. (11/1956-1957)

Dinky Toys 24 CP Citroën DS 19 “avec pare-brise, lunette et glaces” French DT catalogue 1958-2

Dinky Toys 24 CP Citroën DS 19 “avec pare-brise, lunette et glaces”. (1958-1959). Photo by courtesy of Vectis.

Dinky Toys 522-24 CP Citroën DS 19 “avec glaces” French DT catalogue 1959-1

Dinky Toys 522-24 CP Citroën DS 19 “avec glaces”. (1959). Ebay picture.

Dinky Toys 522 Citroën DS 19 avec glaces French DT catalogue 1960-1

Dinky Toys 522 Citroën DS 19 “avec glaces”. (1959-1968). Ebay picture.

Base plate Dinky Toys 522 Citroën DS 19 avec glaces. Has still 24 C in the base. Ebay picture.

Note: Up till now, always "Citroën DS 19" on the boxes, but "DS 19 Citroën" in the catalogues.

Ramsay’s model toys catalogue 15th edition

Dinky Toys 522 and 530 Citroën DS 19 with new bumpers, opening boot and bonnet in French DT catalogue 1965-1

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 in French DT catologue 1970-2 

Citroën DS 19 1963 with new bumpers in front. Très gracieux.

Poster of the Citroën DS 19 1963. (By courtesy of ikonoto.com)

 

My Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 with new bumpers in front, windows, opening boot and bonnet, detailed engine and spare wheel, suspension, interior and steering wheel. (1964-1970).

Note: From now on DS 19 Citroën or DS 23 Citroën on the 530 boxes.

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19. (1964-1970).

Base plate Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19. 530 in base. (1964-1970).

Announcement Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 imported to UK in MM February 1965

Announcement Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 imported to UK in MM January 1965

Announcement Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 imported to UK in MM January 1965

(Imported) French Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 in DT catalogue UK 1966-1 and USA 1966-1

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 for the UK and USA market in a see-through export window box with English text. (Photos by courtesy of Vectis)

Note the text: "A Meccano Product. Made in England" at the top left of the box. How is that possible? The 530 Citroën Ds 19 were made in France!!

Spanish issues:

I also show information and pictures of the Spanish Issues, because they are also Dinky Toys Citroën DS Berline with Dinky Toys Meccano France brand into the base plate:

1) Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 (made in France and assembled in Spain) sold by Poch in Spain in 2 colours with Dinky Toys Poch Meccano on the box (1968-1970).

2) Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 made in Spain by Auto-Pilen (1976-1978).

Ramsay's model toys catalogue 15th edition  

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 sold by Poch in Spain in 2 colours with Dinky Toys Poch Meccano on box. (1968-1970).

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 sold by Poch in Spain. Ebay Fr bboldtoys € 3000. 

Base plate Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 19 – assembled and sold by Poch in Spain – not marked made in Spain.

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 in Général Meccano Catalogue France 1974.

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23

Ramsay’s model toys catalogue 15th edition

My Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 - New front with double headlights – made by Auto-Pilen in Spain and marked “made in Spain” on the base plate. (1976-1978). Purchased by the previous owner in 1977 in Paris.

Real Citroën DS 23 Pallas 1973. The summum of comfort.

My Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 - New front with double headlights - marked “made in Spain”. (1976-1978).

Real Citroën DS 23 Pallas 1973. The summum of comfort.

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 box with “Made in Spain” and “Meccano Marque Deposee” on the box.

Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 box with details about the engine.

Base plate Dinky Toys 530 Citroën DS 23 with “made in Spain” on the base plate.

2) Question: How do members-collectors think about the Spanish issues. Do they regard them as real Dinky Toys, such as the South African issues for instance?

Jean-Michel Roulet discusses in his book the 530 Citroën DS 19 sold by Poch in Spain, but not the 530 Citroën DS 23 made by Auto-Pilen in Spain, while this model also carry the Dinky Toys Meccano France brand on the base plate. As you can see on my pictures is this car also a very beautiful model with a beautiful bright colour scheme and very good shape and quality. He only lists 530 Citroën DS 23 in the table of sales numbers. Ramsay’s model toys catalogue 15th edition lists both, the 530 Citroën DS 19 sold by Poch in Spain and the 530 Citroën DS 23 made by Auto-Pilen in Spain in the list of French Dinky Toys cars.

Poster of the Citroën DS 23 Pallas 1973. The summum of comfort.  (By courtesy of ikonoto.com).

I am very happy to possess these very nice pieces of the history of Dinky Toys Meccano France.

I'll continue my presentation with some full size photos. At the end I show my Citroën GS in my possession from 1973-1978. That was also a very nice and comfortable car.

 Kind regards to all,

Jan Oldenhuis, 9-9-2017

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Wonderful contribution, Jan!

Collecting 'the ones without windows' only I do not have to worry about obtaining the later Dinky renditionswink.

You found nice examples of those, which makes the Dinky coverage complete.

Kind regards, Jan 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance

Jan,

Very nice revue of this fabulous car, a real experiance in driving.

Just a little thing, the last picture in your post is of a Citroën GS, not DS.

All the best.

Jacques.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Of course Jacques. You are absolutely right. It's a GS, as described. A DS was a little bit too expensive for me. wink But the driving comfort of a GS is no less than a DS.  yes You also experienced that driving comfort.

Many thanks for your nice comment and I am also happy with your other contributions.

Best wishes,

Jan Oldenhuis 11-9-2017

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Just another nice picture, with a black background, taken this afternoon!

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Jan. Because you place a second photo with a dark instead of a light background, I assume that you are experimenting with the color of the background and I assume that you want to hear an opinion about it. 

My first thought was that you with a tool from your photo program you changed the background. My photo program ACDSee Pro 6 can not do that in my opinion. But if I compare well, that is not the case. You really made a second photo. The position of the box is slightly different.

Personally, I like the white background better, because I see more depth in it and the contours of the Citroën look better. With the black background, the black roof, the interior and the underside of the car do not stand out. You do not see a depth in the photo. You can not look through the car. All photos of Vectis, for example, are taken with a white background and personally I think that is the best and the most comfortable. A black background is very hard to see. I do not like to see an archive of pictures with a black background. That's my opinion.

Kind regards, Jan Oldenhuis

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello Jan, thanks for commenting! Please, do not consider this picture as meant to be 'documentary'. It is just one of those experiments when taking a new range of pictures of my Dinky Toys. I like it aesthetically, with the bright model and box against the dark background, but of course a more neutral background would produce a more 'objective' photo for assessing the model. 

The photo below shows that a white background makes a good, but rather boring picture for a 'colourless' model like this. Kind regards, Jan 

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello Jan. I understand your reasoning. You have often used grey as a background (see accompanying image from TMT). Is also a neutral color with which the contours also appear clearer than white. As you say, it also depends on the color combination of the subject. Because of your experience with photography over the years, it has become an adventure for you to experiment with the background that you personally find the best. That is the nice challenge of shooting.

Kind regards, Jan O

Richard's picture
Richard
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance

Hi everybody.

To complete this very interesting topic.

Some photos of my collection reference 530.

The red and cream models on its boxes.

The same models : just to show the cream and the white seats and also an important shade in the red colour.

The green and grey models . On the left, fit with Dunlop tyres.

Front and rear hoods unpainted.

Kind regards

Richard

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance

Dear Jan,

Sorry for the delay in answering the two questions in your fantastic post about the DS.

1) Question: Can anyone tell something about these technical problems to the release date of Dinky Toys model 24 C ?

There might have been two problems :

1 ) Meccano did not get the drawings from Citroën until the car had been exhibited at the 1955 Paris motor show and they had to issue their model before CIJ, Norev and the orher competitors issued theirs.

2 ) There might have been an issue with the dash board and hat shelf. There was also a problem with the glazed windows which could not be inserted because of the dash board and the hat shelf. The 24 CP is the only Dinky Toys with the window glazing in two pieces.

2) Question: How do members-collectors think about the Spanish issues. Do they regard them as real Dinky Toys, such as the South African issues for instance?

The South African, Chilean and Poch models are true Dinky Toys as they have been cast by Meccano and assembled with Meccano hubs, axles and other components except for the tyres as Poch fitted Pirelli tyres on the models they assembled.

There are two types of Auto-Pilen models, those cast into Meccano dies modified by Pilen and sold under the Dinky Toys or Pilen marques, the DS 23 , Renault 16 TX, Citroën Dyane etc...  and those cast in moulds made by Pilen such as the VW Sirocco, 2cv, Renault 14, Ford Fiesta, Opel Ascona etc...

I beleive that the first set are true Dinky (without Toys) but those cast in Pilen moulds are not. This is my own opinion, I know that many "collectors" think that they are all Dinky including the Dan Toys and Atlas which are only counterfeits.

I never owned a DS, I drove one  for about 120 miles to and from Paris and this was a real pleasure. I also owned a GS, a GS A, a BX, an XM, a Xantia and a C5 with which I drove to Monnickendam for a DTCA meeting, all these cars had olèo-pneumatic suspension. Citroën has given up this technology, I think that only the top of the line C5s are still fitted with this suspension.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Jacques. Thank you very much for your explanation and answering my questions. I appreciate that very much. And ... I am always very happy when I see a classic Citroen DS 19 driving.

Jan O.

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance

The DS was certainly not the best Dinky Toys casting, the rear end is completely wrong, even the masking for the silver paint is not complete.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Jacques. The rear end of the first models were indeed not quite correct. In the later models they have corrected that, such as with these, my 530 Citroen DS 19 and 530 DS 23 which I think has a correct rear.

Jan Oldenhuis

jackh
Offline
DTCA MemberIsrael

Jacques, I believe you show a picture of the rear end of an Atlas DS. The 1956 DS has a much better casting.

 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance

jackh By Atlas do you mean these awful counterfeits made in China ? I am a collector of Dinky Toys, I would not dare to post chinese rubish.

jackh
Offline
DTCA MemberIsrael

Yes, I know!! I think and do the same...But my 1956 DS shows a quite different rear-end casting. Unfortunately, I am unable to post a picture for an unknown reason...

jackh
Offline
DTCA MemberIsrael

The picture went through...

jackh
Offline
DTCA MemberIsrael

The picture went through...