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Due to the current ongoing situation, the June 2020 DTCA AGM, did not take place.  We will try to reschedule for later in the year once matters are clearer.

Production of the DTCA special edition Omnisport model has also been postponed.

 

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Packing pieces

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-641 Army 1-Ton Cargo Truck (1954-62)

2 days 11 hours ago

-641 Army 1-Ton Cargo Truck (1954-62)

2 days 14 hours ago

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

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--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

2 days 22 hours ago

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

2 days 22 hours ago

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

2 days 23 hours ago

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

3 days 44 min ago

-641 Army 1-Ton Cargo Truck (1954-62)

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-161b and 690 Anti-Aircraft Gun on Trailer (1939-55)

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-161b and 690 Anti-Aircraft Gun on Trailer (1939-55)

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--30a and 32 Chrysler Airflow Saloon (1935-48)

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--30a and 32 Chrysler Airflow Saloon (1935-48)

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--23g, 233 and 208 Cooper-Bristol Racing Car (1952-64)

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--30a and 32 Chrysler Airflow Saloon (1935-48)

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--30a and 32 Chrysler Airflow Saloon (1935-48)

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--23g, 233 and 208 Cooper-Bristol Racing Car (1952-64)

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--30a and 32 Chrysler Airflow Saloon (1935-48)

4 days 21 hours ago

--23g, 233 and 208 Cooper-Bristol Racing Car (1952-64)

4 days 21 hours ago

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

5 days 56 min ago

--24s and 534 Simca 8 Sport (1952-1960)

5 days 15 hours ago

--24s and 534 Simca 8 Sport (1952-1960)

6 days 4 hours ago

--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

6 days 17 hours ago

Axle ends

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--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

1 week 19 hours ago

-521, 921and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)

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-521, 921and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)

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-105 Triumph TR2 Touring Finish (1957-60)

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--24c/24cp and 522 Citroën DS 19 (1956-19..) and 530 Citroën DS 19 berline 1963 (1964-70) and DS 23 berline 1969 (1976-78) (2)

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-521, 921and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)

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--23e and 221 'Speed of the Wind' Racing Car (1936-56)

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New arrivals

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-105 Triumph TR2 Touring Finish (1957-60)

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-965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck (1955-69) (cont...)

fodenway's picture
fodenway
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Bruce - thanks for transferring the photos for me, and in answer to your query regarding the exhaust pipes, they are both actually the same length (14.3mm from mounting ring) although the Terex one wasn't as tightly rivetted as the Euclid, and has about half a millimetre of free movement giving the effect of being shorter. Also, upon closer inspection, the grille mesh on the Terex is noticeably coarser than that on the Euclid.
- Kevin.

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dinkycollect
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It was not possible to change the Euclid marking into Terex, the whole front of the truck (radiator, headlights, bumper) is from a new part of the die. This explains why the grill is coarser on the Terex the die of which never got as worn as the Euclid because much fewer Terex were made.

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Greetings all!

Herewith is a chronological series of images of the grille of the Euclid:

On the left is a model packaged in September 1955. On the right is a model packaged in January 1956

The left photograph is of the grille of a model packaged in January 1958, and on the right the grille of a model packaged in December 1960

The model on the left is in a blue-striped box, no inspection date decipherable (one with three rows of numerals) but with a green spot, which dates it from about 1962. The fact that a large percentage of the grille is "filled in" may have been due to an excessive paint being the culprit, rather than a dramatic change in the mould. On the right is the grille of a model packaged in a yellow half pictorial scene lidded box issued after the blue striped boxes had been deleted.

On the left also packaged in a yellow pictorial lidded box, but with no transfers on the tipper unit. The model on the right was packaged in an end-flap pictorial box

The final image above is a Euclid with RED HUBS, also packaged in an end-flap pictorial box. No doubt one of the last issues of the Euclid before the advent of the Terex.

With the release of the Terex, we do notice something similar with an earlier Euclid casting and this can be seen in the following images of the three Terex models I have in my collection.

Look carefully at the area on the bottom right for the last three Euclids - one can see identical filled-in areas with the Terex. I will leave it to others to make their own deductions on whether the entire grille area including the upper radiator was a new casting for the Terex or not. My view is that what Jacques has stated is not exactly correct.

Bruce (150)
#518

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janwerner
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An interesting link, supplied by a member of the Planet Diecast forum: toysnz.com/Dinky965-G_EuclidRearDumpTruck. (link is external)

I haven't read or checked every detail yet, but it may be interesting for 965 Euclid fans to do so! Kind regards, Jan 

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dinkycollect
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Some Euclid trucks testing a new bridge on the route nationale 7 near Donzère (France) circa 1948.

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Jan Oldenhuis
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Jacques a very nice picture of the Euclids of that time. Same trucks as the Dinky Toys models. Disciplined as a military column. Euclid tractors left and Euclid trucks right. Striking that the tractors have the same front as the trucks. A nice advertisement for the Euclid factory. Here a picture of my Euclid Terex variations with box.

Jan Oldenhuis 14-9-2017

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Dinkinius
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Jacques - Thank you for posting the photograph of a fleet of Euclid R-15s hard at work as weighing machines to test the strength of a bridge in France. Presume there is a bridge there somewhere!  Hopefully you may uncover the rest of the sequence of pictures of this flock of tractors and R-15s actually on that bridge!

To compliment Jacques' photograph, here are some further photographs of Euclid R-15s at work around the globe - from England and all the way down to New Zealand and Australia.

Up first are two photographs of some of the Euclid R-15s that were imported into New Zealand from England on behalf of the Department of Public Works for use in various hydro-electricity projects.  A total of 124 R-15s were imported from the late 1940s consisting of various models, 49FD, 82FD, B3FD, B6FD and B7FD, with the Rolls-Royce powered B6FD type being the most numerous. Many of these work-horses were still in operation into the 1970s, and indication of the strength that had been built into them by the manufacturer.

Another R-15, this one working near Darwin in 1949 during the construction of the new civilian and military airfield.

A new R-15 being loaded onboard a freighter with its destination being Angola, South West Africa.

At work in Leicestershire, United Kingdom:

A handsome duo of Euclid R-15s "somewhere in England".  These must be brand-new as the paintwork appears untouched, as well as the engines still have their side covers which were invariably dispensed to assist cooling the enormous engine.

To round up this section, a couple of colour images, the first being a R-15 Model B3FD hard at work, followed by a flock of R-15s lined up during the removal of overburden at an open-cut coal mine, some with their engine side-covers removed.

Now Jan - nice to see your "flock" of 965 Euclid Rear Dump Trucks.  As you know, the 965 has always been one of my favourite Dinky Toys, and naturally, I have accumulated quite a fleet over the years - and here they are - photographed in the wee hours of this morning while the CEO was fast asleep. It took me ages to set it up, using my two 666s plus my boxed Fodens and many other models such as my 184 Volvos to provide the height so that the rows can be "stepped up" and readily seen!  The result was not quite what I was hoping, but none-the-less, it will have to do as I do not envisage undertaking that set-up any time too soon.  My camera is also suffering from the effects of having been dropped on our driveway earlier this week when I had forgotten to zip up the camera bag! The sound of it hitting concrete was identical to the last time I dropped a camera - in Binns Road, Liverpool in 2005!  I therefore apologiize profusely for both images that are not entirely in focus.

With the following not using a flash to bring out the shade of yellow used for those models packaged in the traditional blue-striped box and the remainder in the later yellow and red pictorial lided box and pictorial end-flap boxes that have a tinge of green added to the yellow - or at least that is what my bloodshot eyes were seeing - the effect not readily noticeable when using the flash.

I still have the military green wheel version to obtain, but the above represents all the current variations in the models as well as the boxes.

TOP ROW, Left to Right

Blue striped box, DINKY SUPERTOYS, price 8/11 plain insignia                        September 1955  OO955

Blue striped box, DINKY SUPERTOYS, price 16/- (Australia) red insignia          January 1956      AM 1 56

Blue striped box, DINKY SUPERTOYS, red insignia                                           January 1958      1  K  58

Window glazing added 13 Jan 1960

Blue striped box, Green Spot DINKY SUPERTOYS, red insignia, WINDOWS     October 1960       1060 LO

SECOND ROW FROM THE TOP, Left to Right

Blue striped box, DINKY SUPERTOYS, red insignia, No Windows,                    December 1960 1260Y  B

Blue striped box, Marked “With Windows” DINKY SUPERTOYS, red insignia, WINDOWS  November 1961 J O 3 1161

Yellow/red Picture Box, front wheel round-side outer, no pinion stopper

Yellow/red Picture Box, front wheel assembled same way as rear wheels, as from 23 May 63, no pinion stopper

THIRD ROW FROM THE TOP

Yellow/red Picture Box, front wheel round-side outer, no STONE-ORE-EARTH, pinion stopper, added as from 26 Jan 67

Pictorial end-flap box, EUCLID, yellow hubs, no pinion stopper

Pictorial end-flap box, EUCLID, red hubs, no pinion stopper

Pictorial end-flap box, EUCLID base, TEREX cab dated from 3 Jan 69, pinion stopper

FOURTH ROW FROM THE TOP

Pictorial end-flap box, TEREX, red hubs, pinion stopper, 72pence

Picture box with white background, TEREX, pinion stopper, rear wheels assembled with round-side outer (most likely a factory error)

FIFTH ROW

Picture box with white background, TEREX, pinion stopper, purchased June 1970

At least two of the above models "may" not be in the correct box - these were how I acquired them. The culprits are the blue striped box, fourth one down with the model not having window glazing, and one other in either the yellow and red picture box, or pictorial end flap box that I have forgotten which one it is! The later period when Meccano no longer bothered to quality check and stamp the inside of the box lid is the period difficult to match the exact time frames.

Kind regards to you all

Bruce Hoy   (150)

20171609/1158/2332

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I thought I was mad with my dozen variants of the 555/955 Fire Engine - but now I feel reassuredwink 

Bruce, wonderful still-life photos and specification of details! Kind regards, Jan 

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Bruce, a beautiful collection of Euclid's and beautiful pictures of the Euclid's working in the field. You have done a lot of work in this forum to explain and promote this model in all his details. Many thanks for that. A great job to complete such a beautiful collection complete with their box. Congratulations.

Kind regards,

Jan Oldenhuis, 16-9-2017.

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dinkyfan
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Bruce.....Only one word will suffice.....wow!! What a wonderful photograph, to show off your superb collection of Euclid's.....that is so impressive and also interesting. And thanks also for your usual wonderful collection of real world photos of these beasts at work.....very nicely done!!
Best regards, Terry

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The three above Posts deserve an individual and special response, that is for certain but I will incorporate my response into this single Post!

Jan W

You made my day! I must confess I initially hesitated Posting an image of my collection of Euclids, as I did not wish to appear to be a braggart and a "show off", but on seeing Jan O's collection as well as having seen your own collection of 555/955 Fire Engines, I sort of felt vindicated!. However, the 965 has not been the only Dinky model that I have amassed a considerable collection.  I too developed a very keen interest in the 555/955 and over the years which developed to a total of 10 models until I "lost interest" and sold 7 to fund my interest in others, but I have resumed my collecting of this great model and the number is back to six! Then there is the 139a/170 which now stands at eight; 183 Volvo Amazon at six, 175 Hillman Minx at ten, 25x/430 at eight, and so it goes on, and on, and on!  But I also have a confession, my total 965 really comes to a staggering 27 models, the additional ones being those that have "lost their place" after being superseded by a better example, of which I have not got around nor the heart to selling!

But as you said quite correctly, it is nice to know that you are now safely reassured that there are others who emulate, or try to emulate what you have achieved!!

Thank you too for the compliments on the additional photographs I have provided of the real machines at work.

Jan O

Thank you for your kind words on my Euclid collection as well as providing the inspiration for me to display my collection! I tend to look at the Forum as the ideal place in which to write about Dinky Toys, and it is a terrible shame the same does not apply to those who are intimately involved with our Association who have their incredible knowledge and dedication published elsewhere. I was actually asked to join the DTCA when it was in its embryonic stage, but I had too many other matters on my plate at that time, which I now deeply regret. I have, however, made up for this reticence since 24 July 2014 when I posted my first website comment on a new topic I created "Auction Catalogue Descriptions" the contents of which are now being pursued elsewhere as nothing eventuated with the matter I raised. (Watch that Topic in the future!)

Your kind words are always more than welcome. With what you have presented since you joined as one of a small band of writers in this Forum is incredible and I as well as the silent majority thank you for your work and dedication. 

Terry

Thank you, as always, for your most kind and appreciated words on my Euclid collection. As usual you always seem to find the right words that makes the effort all that more pleasurable!  Most of the above replies to the two Jans are also very much applicable to you. One thing that makes your collection and Jan's all that more unbelievable is how you have managed to keep the models you acquired as a youngster in such pristine condition beggars belief!  I am afraid my younger-day collection pales in significance when you post an image of one of your models acquired as a youngster! Thank you, as always for your kind words, and for being a great friend for many years, even before the DTCA!

Kind regards, Jan, Jan O and Terry

Bruce   (150)

20171809/1160/0953

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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After the comments about assembling reversed tyres on the 965 in the new arrivals topic comment #855-#859 with the link http://dtcawebsite.com/comment/10288#comment-10288  and  comment #40 and #41 in Happy collecting milestones with the link http://dtcawebsite.com/comment/10274#comment-10274  I have investigated my collection on reversed tyres and commented in this Euclid topic because there are the most differences and details being commented about the Euclid truck..

I discovered that Meccano Liverpool not always strictly assembled the reversed tyres on the same way on the models itself and also not strictly pictured reversed tyres on the boxes on the same way.

First I show the various types of tires that were mounted on the 965. Then I show pictures of tyres mounted on a same model 965, but at a different way to each other. Also pictures of combinations of model and box with correct or incorrect mounted tyres regarding the picture on the box and show still once more pictures of all 965 boxes.

Very remarkable is that box type 2 has pictured reversed tyres facing inwards and box type 3 and 4 has pictured reversed tyres facing outwards. For clarity, I add photos in full size with attached captions.

By the way, I'm not convinced of the advantage of the use of reversed tires by the Euclid trucks. In the Netherlands we have very heavy clay. All farmers have tractors to plough in this heavy clay and all tires of these tractors have a deep V groove profile which is always directed forward. See last pictures. 

Jan Oldenhuis 18-10-2017 

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Recently I received a 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck with red decals open windows and fitted with 1st version heavy-duty tyres. I did not have this variation yet. It is also a USA export model with a Hudson Dobson label. I already had this version with red decals, closed windows and 2nd version heavy-duty tyres with V groove. The stamp in the box stated 11 AN 55 and will therefore be issued November 1955.

This means that the 1st version with black decals has been issued for only a few months since October 1955.

Jan Oldenhuis, 23 May 2018.

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That is interesting new information for establishing a more exact date for the transition from the black to red logos, Jan. A nice addition too to your dumper fleet. It's about time to start you own quarry now! Kind regards, Jan   

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My newly added Euclid came with a protection ring. I know this extra for the no. 190 Caravan, but I doubt the authenticity of this one. Can anybody confirm or deny? Kind regards, Jan 

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First of all, congratulations on your beautiful new acquisitions. Very hard to find in such an undamaged condition. A wonderful addition to your collection.

I received the same box with a 965 Euclid with a loose internal cardboard lid with a hole in it and raised edges over the winding handle as they were used in all 965 lid boxes as protection. There was also a control label in the box. 

As is known, the model is always transported on its side in the box, where for protection and sealing a loose internal cardboard cover with a hole in it is placed over the winding handle to prevent shaking and damaging through the winding handle against the box.

In comment #35, Bruce Hoy also discussed and depicted this lid box and the later end-flap boxes with internal packing piece. His lid box has the same internal packaging as mine and the later end-flap box was given a different rectangular cardboard packaging to be filled between the body and the box. Bruce has researched many 965 models and is a specialist for this model with all its details. I hope he reads this contribution and will respond as well.

When I look at your picture with the ring, it seems to me that the ring is not high enough to protrude above the winding handle to protect it sufficiently against shaking against the box, but that can be a visual deception. I checked QDT but they only show the cardboard packing pieces as protection in this boxes, so I think that this ring was not original used for protection in this 965 box. For my convenience, I use the seller's photos of my 965 with box.

Kind regards, Jan O.

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I agree, Jan. Exactly what crossed my mind. Thanks for the confirmation! Kind regards, Jan 

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Greetings Gentlemen!

After a long silence, and in receipt of some new, working parts, I am back on board, and what did I find - why two Posts on my favourite Dinky Supertoys!  Now all I have to do is to remember how to Post replies, as well as how to create new Posts with pictures!!  I have found a folder that contains well over two dozen new Posts, either practically complete, to just the outline. Here is hoping that my fire has been rekindled!

In answer to Post #76, Jan. I suggest you remove that cardboard ring, and use it on a Hornby-Dublo or Wrenn locomtive! Jan O is quite correct in that it does not belong to the 965 - the cardboard insert with the hole for the winder is all that is needed, as the edges of this piece of cardboard is the part that keeps the model away from the lid.The same sort of protective piece of shaped carboard was also used for the 930 with a similar style protective cardboard used with the 966 Marrel Multi-Bucket Unit, but instead of a hole, this has two "slits for the upper arms of the bucket holder.

My memory is a little shot at present, (most likely left on the operating theatre floor) but I am sure some of the early Bedfords, Dust Cart, dumper etc did have a protective ring that prevented the winding handle penetrating the lightweight end-flap boxes.

Post #77 is one of the major reasons why I have loved researching and placing within this Forum, something that may be useful in part for our members, so thank you Jan O for your most appreciated comments. You may be interested in knowing, that since I last made a contribution, I have added yet another 965 Euclid to my collection making it 16 models, all different in some way, shape or form, but I am perplexed as to where I have placed it! I will have to start tearing our house apart soon! I have a fair idea where it is, as it is in the collection yet to be photographed, but where is that box?

I will end this Post by asking a very valid question - one that has been on my mind for years. A few years ago, I acquired the original drawings for the 965, and I immediately saw something I had never noticed before, even looking at photographs of the real Euclid R-15. Here is my question:

Has anyone given any thought as to why Meccano never made the model exactly as the prototype? Meccano made its model's windscreen with a small rearward slope, which in effect, makes it more "modern", whereas the original truck, (as can be seen with the photographs) the windscreen is vertical.

The reason for the R-15 having a vertical windscreen is to reduce glare from reflected sunlight when the windscreens are closed so why didn't Meccano make its model exactly the same, knowing that Meccano's draftsmen spent time measuring the real truck  long before they put pen to paper?

I leave you for the time being, in peace, once more, to ponder this question!

Kind regards

Bruce (150)

20200603/1207/1404

 

binnsboy650
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Good to see that you're back in the fold Bruce. I wish you full and speedy recovery from whatever ailed you.

John

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dinkycollect
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Helllo Bruce,

Glad to see you back on board, I hope that you will recover quickly.

The reason for the wind screen to be slant is that  if it had been vertical the casting could not have been ejected from the mould.

 

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Bruce. I am also happy that you are back in the forum and wish you further prosperous recovery. I look always forward to your contributions.

For example, I have always wondered why there are 3 vertical support beams in the body of the 965 model and not 4 like the real ones.

Kind regards, Jan O.

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Jan O

It is not only in the Neiderland that the V of agricultural tyres are pointed forward but also everywhere in the world except in places were ignorant people do not konw that the tyres must be fitted that way.

Mis fitted tyres do not make a variant but a an assembling error.

About the 3 or 4 supporting beams, Meccano probably chose three beams only for aestetic reasons, these beams are perhaps not reduced to the same scale as the tipper body, they would have looked too wide if there had been four and there would not have been enough room for the transfers.

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It is more of a happy coincidence if tyres like these are fitted correctly. I just leave them as they are, after so many years.

Welcome, Bruce!

Kind regards, Jan

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Jacques, thank you very much for your much appreciated explanation. Again a number of questions have been clarified.

Jan O.

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Jan W

Meccano should not have fitted this type of tyres on the Euclid or the howitzer but at the time they did not have any other tyre of this size, they are not fit for the speed at which the trucks travels and they are useless on a gun.

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janwerner
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The early ones were more functional indeed!

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Jan,

There was a third variation of the dia. 27mm. tyre, the plastic one fitted to the Lunar Rover, the Muir-Hill loaders etc... The reference is 027.

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Some time ago I started collecting control stamps in boxes of 965 Euclid models in order to date certain changes that are not found on the existing drawings. For example, I cannot find the date of reinforcement of the 3 ribs at the bottom of the tipper body above the cabin on the Meccano drawing and I try to date it using stamps in boxes and/or a pencil price at the box. There must be a Meccano drawing with Job list of the tipper body with this information, probably Job no. 13973, but I couldn't find it anywhere. In the meantime I have collected photos of stamps from the years 1955 to 1962 with corresponding photos of these 965 models via Ebay sellers or somewhere else. Till now I collected 32 stamps from 965 Euclid boxes.

To my surprise I found several stamps from January 1955, while 965 Euclid for the first time were introduced in MM of October 1955, but there are more examples of this happening in the past.

Point 3 of the Terex assembly drawing Job No. 13970 states that the transfers Stone-Sand-Gravel were changed to Stone-Ore-Earth on 28-3-55. Given the found of several control stamps of January 1955 and the mention of point 3 dated 28-3-55, I hoped to find an Euclid with the transfers Stone-Sand-Gravel on the Euclid's tipper body, but unfortunately I have not found it. All carries the transfers Stone-Ore-Earth and I think they don't exist.

But my search was not in vain. According to stamps found in 1961 (April and September) the underside of the tipper body above the cabin was still smooth while the 965 with a stamp of November 1962 had the 3 ribs reinforcement. I found 2 examples with this stamp and reinforcement from November 1962. I assume that the reinforcement of these 3 ribs took place between September 1961 and November 1962. I also found out that the V groove tires were probably fitted from 1961 onwards.

In connection with this It is appropriate, as Bruce Hoy already stated in his comment #35, that on Job list No 13971 of the Terex Rear Dump Truck Chassis, the base of the 965 was first branded as Dinky Toys, but on 19-1-55 according point 5 of Job list 13971, was changed to Dinky Supertoys. Therefore, the 1st issues of the 965 have the name Dinky Supertoys in the base on a raised plate, because the name Dinky Toys had to be changed to Dinky Suptertoys before the first production run. Also a proof that Meccano Liverpool struggled with the classification of the Dinky Supertoys, as I described in # 40 of topic 521: http://www.dtcawebsite.com/comment/12222#comment-12222

Jan Oldenhuis, 14 September 2020

binnsboy650
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Great detective work Jan!

DavidT
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Love this sort of detail, going to check mine now, just bought two of these the other day.

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