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janwerner's picture
janwerner
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-105 Triumph TR2 Touring Finish (1957-60)

Hi all, I am in the process of cataloguing my new Triumph acquisition.

This touring finish has no catalogue number embossed in the base plate. Having no 'competition finish' at my disposal, I wonder if the catalogue number 111 is indeed present in the base plate of those early competition cars (as indicated on the factory drawing of job. no. 14052) and - if so - if on later versions of the competition finish, apparently produced parellel to the touring version, this number is lacking. I hope you can help with this information.
Kind regards, Jan

Richard's picture
Richard
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DTCA MemberFrance

Hello Jan.
Here under the base plate of the rallye TR2 :

I have the same model as yours, but I also have one in poor condition (driver lost and windscreen broken) with white tyres.
I don't know if it's original but I have this car since my childwood.

Cheers

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

The sports TR2 must have had the ref number on the base plate until mid 1957 when this number was deleted before issuing the touring model.

My triple 1 is without the ref. number.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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OK, thanks to both of you, that was exactly what I was eager to know! So both with and without the number occur for the competition finish no. 111.
By the way, Richard, the white tyres on your Triumph can very well be original. Many more Dinky Toys have come with incidental white tyres in the period 1957/58, in my theory in order to get rid of the surplus of smooth white tyres (used for the black Austin Atlantic only) and change over quickly to the white treaded tyres (for the new American models etc.).
Kind regards, Jan

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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janwerner wrote:
"OK, thanks to both of you, that was exactly what I was eager to know! So both with and without the number occur for the competition finish no. 111.
By the way, Richard, the white tyres on your Triumph can very well be original. Many more Dinky Toys have come with incidental white tyres in the period 1957/58, in my theory in order to get rid of the surplus of smooth white tyres (used for the black Austin Atlantic only) and change over quickly to the white treaded tyres (for the new American models etc.).
Kind regards, Jan"

Jan

Although mention of the 111 or triple 1 should be in another thread, it would be nice for Jacques to have shown a picture of his triple one that does not show the sales number on the base plate. Any chance of us seeing a picture of your unusual 111 Jacques, as Ramsay's Catalogue does make mention of this occurrence on most of the competition models. It may interest you to know that one can find many competition finish models without a racing number. In fact both of my 108 and 111 no longer have any competition numbers, and when I was given these I had to affix the numbers myself, as these were on a small self-adhesive sheet inside the box that I peeled off and stuck to each model. These over time simply fell off, no doubt through the Australian summer heat. The factory fitted transfers on the other hand are difficult to remove and invariably traces can still be found of these if they have been intentionally removed, or worn off through play-wear.
If there is a 108 and 111 thread, I will copy my comments and place this post there as well.

As for white tyres, I think in general, these models were always shod with black tyres and any with white tyres have been swapped over by a previous owner. My 108 for instance has hardened white tyres as I swapped these with another model. My 187 has black tyres and I do recall swapping these with my 181. These changes still exist on these two models today. As an aside, when I collected my Dinky Toys from home after 21 years in Papua New Guinea, I noticed my 181 was shod with white tyres. I remembered having swapped these with my Volkswagen Karmann Ghia, but this model was missing. Several years later my brother arrived for a visit, and he brought with him a number of my Dinky Toys, one of which was my Karmann Ghia. On opening its box, I found it shod with the black tyres I had removed from my 181. If touring finish models were shod with white tyres towards the end of their production life, as theorized by Jan, there would be far more in existence.)

Bruce

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Dear Bruce, thanks for your comment. Yes, a picture of the 111-less base plate for a later competition version would be appreciated, and posted in a new 111 thread.
The tyre issue is always tricky, because they can be swapped easily. However there are some examples of first owner copies. I will argue, as far as I can, and demonstrate, in a new 'Tyres' thread.
Kind regards, Jan

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

janwerner wrote:
"Dear Bruce, thanks for your comment. Yes, a picture of the 111-less base plate for a later competition version would be appreciated, and posted in a new 111 thread.
The tyre issue is always tricky, because they can be swapped easily. However there are some examples of first owner copies. I will argue, as far as I can, and demonstrate, in a new 'Tyres' thread.
Kind regards, Jan"

Hello Jan
I look forward to reading your new Thread on tyres, and see if it matches my research!! ;) Thus continuing what will prove to be a lively discussion!
Kind regards
Bruce
PS Ah, it is nice to see three well-known online right now!

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dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

In reading this topic, I noticed that no one had posted an image of the Triumph TR2 Touring in the yellow color......here are a couple pictures of mine.
Regards,
Terry

 

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

That's in lovely condition Terry, I had a mare finding one that was reasonable, I always think Dinkys with yellow paint seem to chip very easily, or is it just me?
Chris Warr

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
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DTCA MemberUK

I have heard exactly the same thing about Yellow Corgi Toys.

Perhaps there is something to do with the pigmentation of the paint

Dave

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Isn't this rather a matter of perception than quality of the paint? I can imagine that the coverage of this lighter shade of paint is more difficult, especially on raised and recessed lines and other protruding characteristics of the model. You can see that very clearly on Terry's example. But that has nothing to do with chipping of the paint. Real chips that came off, however, show very obviously on yellow indeed.
A battered grey Dinky Toy still displays very well. Have a look at the fender of Terry's model. There is a very tiny chip there, not of any importance. But the same chip would have been a nasty one if it were in the yellow finished area.
Kind regards, Jan

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

I think Jan is generally right with his thought that chips on yellow and other light colored paints sure seem to show more or are just more noticeable. I have also felt that cream is another color that chips really stand out.
On the other hand, I know a couple of friends who both restore Dinky Toys, and they both say yellow is a very difficult color to work with and get good results; just does not flow and cover well sometimes. As Jan noticed, you can see that those raised edgs on my Triumph are thinly covered. And with any wear from handling, will quickly become exposed.
Regards,
Terry

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

The adhesion and coverage of the paint is also very much dependent on the character and treatment of the surface. After stripping the old paint, I sprayed the custom-made MTPV below in yellow and the paint just flew off all raised lines and protruding corners.
After this failure I stripped the new paint layer and applied a primer first and then resprayed. The coverage in one layer was 100%.

Meccano did some processing to make the zamak surface a bit rougher for adhesion of the paint, but no primer was used, which may explain the shining through of the casting more than once, not only for yellow, but also other colours, especially the more pastel colours.
(Perhaps we should proceed this dicussion in a new thread).

Kind regards, Jan

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

A rare left hand drive example below:wink

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Jan,

This is not the only one, there are a few like this rare right hand drive Peugeot 504 tourer.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

I didn't notice earlier than when cataloguing and photographing the lemon version of this Triumph that the steering wheel is a three spoked black plastic example. This does not seem very common to me. This is a later version with treaded tyres and glossy base plate, and packed in a lighter yellow Dink Toys end flaps box. But even the final examples with the spun hubs hardly ever seem to have plastic steering wheels, and if they have they often seem to be white. Is there a general pattern concerning this issue for the other sports cars in the 100 numbers? Any comments on this? Kind regards, Jan 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Following Jan W's discovery of a ref. 105 TR2 with black plastic steering wheel, I have had a look at the steering wheels of the 100 series sports cars

101 Sunbeam Alpine has WHITE diecast steering wheel
102 M.G. Midget has BLACK diecast steering wheel
103 Austin Healey 100 has BLACK diecast steering wheel
104 Aston Martin DB3S has WHITE diecast steering wheel
105 Triumph TR 2 has WHITE diecast steering wheel

107 Sunbeam Alpine racing finish has WHITE diecast steering wheel
108 M.G. Midget  racing finish has BLACK diecast steering wheel
109 Austin Healey 100 racing finish has BLACK diecast steering wheel
110 Aston Martin DB3S racing finish has WHITE diecast steering wheel
111 Triumph TR2 racing finish has WHITE diecast steering wheel

129 M.G. Midget  racing finish has BLACK diecast steering wheel

but I found some errors

a Sunbeam with black steering wheel

an Aston Martin  with black steering wheel

a Triumph with black steering wheel

and an other Triumph with a black PLASTIC steering wheel like Jan's or is it the same ?

but also a Sunbeam with ridged hubs painted silver. Are they overpainted ?

Plastic steering wheels are exceptionnal, are they a test finished in the design office and then sold like any other model ?

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

The obviously darker, (almost) black driver's hair and the slightly darker grey clothing are characteristic for this later issue. The slovenly paint detailing of the driver's head/hair also seems to occur more than once. Kind regards, Jan