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buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
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-151b and 620 6 wheel Covered Wagon (1937-55)

Have a look at this it is a magical 5 minutes of B&W film of 151b 6 Wheeled Wagons being driven around.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=79961

The British-Pathe newsreel site is incredible, you can get lost in there for hours looking at Dinky Toys or the real world vehicles, planes, ships, trains etc.

Dave

catellag (not verified)

Hello! Is there anyone who could tell me something about the real thing? I mean: producer, engine capacity, years of production?
I could never find informations about the 151b prototype...
Thanks to everybody, Gianni from Rome.

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It is generic vehicle and not based on a specific vehicle, Jacques Dujardin found this answer in a 1938 Meccano Magazine

catellag (not verified)

I have found it is called WOB. What does it mean?
And what about its technical specs?

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In WWII there was a Ford WOT, this stood for War Office Transport, WOB will be War Office B.......

Where did you find the WOB acronym? I may be able to find something.

Dave

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Great vintage footage.....fun to look at, and they sure seem to resemble that Dinky model.
Terry

catellag (not verified)

As far as I know, it could be a Karrier built vehicle, equipped with a 4 cylinder Dorman engine with side valves.
I have been told about the existence nowadays of a Karrier WOB, well restored in 1992, with number plate MT6287.

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buzzer999
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I did reply to this thread the other day, the151b Transport Wagon is NOT based on a Karrier.

Page 105 of the February 1938 Meccano Magazine contains the following statement: "There is no standard make of lorry used by the British Army Tank Corps. Those employed are six-wheelers, and the Dinky Toys model (151b) incorporates their chief features"

The Army used Karrier, Leyland, Crossley and other six-wheelers, the Dinky is a mix of all these vehicles.

I hope the above clarifies this situation.

Dave

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Rather than list mine as UNKNOWN or MIXTURE I have it down as a Leyland Rhino being I think the closest? What with 'Leyland' being close to Liverpool too.......

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buzzer999
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My main computer has just been away for about 10 days being fixed so I have been very restricted on what I could do on the DTCA site. Now it is fixed I can add images etc.

A few years ago I did some considerable research on the origin of the 151b Army Wagon and narrowed the choice down to two vehicles; these were the Leyland Terrier and the Crossley.

Here is an official Imperial War Museum photo of the Terrier which I believe is closest to the Dinky Toy.

I will post an image of the Crossley later.

Dave

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Thanks Dave....that photo sure does show at least some resemblance to the Dinky version. As we have discovered, Meccano seemed to take lots of liberty with designs early on, borrowing some elements from different vehicles into their version, and that looks like the case here.
Terry

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Here is the other strong candidate, this is a Crossley:

Whilst similar, it is not as near to the Dinky as the Leyland.

Like the Leyland Terrier this is also an image I bought from the Imperial War Museum. They have a fascinating library I have bought abot 20 images from them.

Dave

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Right Terrier it is. I see the Terrier 6x6 chassis was WD approved from 1928.

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Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 06:56

That was all about the real-world prototype. But what about the Dinky? Well, I grasped together some pictures of all six-wheelers that I have, both military and civilian:


151b Six-Wheeled Covered Transport Wagon (1937)


161a Lorry with Search Light (1939)


151b Six-Wheeled Covered Transport Wagon (post-war issue)


25s Six-Wheeled Wagon (with tilt and fixed driver, early post-war issue)


25s Six-Wheeled Wagon (without tilt, post-war issue)


25s Six-Wheeled Wagon (with tilt, post-war issue)

Kind regards, Jan

starni999
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Lovely models Jan, the searchlight lorry is one I must get. There are a few weird colours on the open wagon too like bright yellow, still don't have that one either :(
Chris Warr.

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A great collection Jan.

Here are my four Transport Wagons and Trade Box together with my 25s

Dave

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Grille definitely looks Leyland. My example has no holes for the driver or front passenger which according to. Cecil Gibson is prewar?

starni999
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Hi Townie,
Lovely pairing! Some weird ones out there, but yours is Postwar for sure because of the hubs.
Cheers
CW.

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Pre- and post-war compared:

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I have 3 versions of the 151b Six Wheel Transport:  a pre-war 161a, part of the Mobile Anti-Aircraft Unit, a pre-war 151b that was part of the Medium Tank Set, which has the Cooker Trailer and the Water tank trailer, and a post-war 151b that I picked up a few months ago.  For some reason, over the years I was never very concerned or interested in the toy soldiers that Dinky had made to go with these and other military models.  So after another friend showed me some photos of hs Dinky military, accompanied with soldiers, all of a sudden I wanted some for my displays also.  Finding sets of good condition soldiers has gotten somewhat difficult and expensive, with many of the sets costing hundreds of dollars..  My friend suggested that in the meantime, I should buy some of the very good white metal reproductions on the market, and paint them.  So I did, and in the middle of that, I came across an original Dinky box of 12 seated privates, but a late issue made of plastic.  I decided to buy these and try them out.  So below are a few photos of my 3 versions of this wonderful truck, but now with added soldiers.  I think they add another dimension and are well worthwhile!

          Regards,  Terry

 

 

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I agree Terry, that military personnel adds much to reality and attractiveness of such models (as far as war stuff can be attractive). I was lucky enough to have a nice contemporary crew coming along with my Mobile Anti-Aircraft Unit, a bit fatigued though.

In fact the later 151b/620 that was meant for US export only should always have a fixed driver (as Dave's nice trade box contents above shows), especially the examples recognizable of their rounded axle ends. Kind regards, Jan.

Chris1
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Joined: Sat, 07/11/2015 - 00:23

I have had this camouflaged version of the 151b Transport Wagon for over 20 years when I bought it at a Christie's London auction in 1994. I understand that camouflaged versions of Dinky military vehicles were only originally found in Mechanized Army Set 156 which were sold by the toy shop Hamleys in London at Christmas 1940 and that the camouflaged sets were never published in any Dinky catalogue but only in a Hamleys advertisement. There is a photo of one of these sets in Jacques Dujardin's Dinky Encyclodia CD. As such the camouflaged versions are comparatively rare.

This particular model can be seen in a photograph which is on the front cover of the Christies catalogue for the auction of Fine Toys held on the 15th & 16th of September, 1994. The photo is titled "Various lots from the Barnes Collection". The model of the camouflaged 151b is near the top of the photograph. This photograph also appears opposite the title page of  "The Great Book of Dinky Toys", by Mike & Sue Richardson, published by New Cavendish Books in 2000. 

The brown camouflge paint on the model appears to be painted on by hand as you can see the brush strokes. Some of the tyres have been flattened with age and it is missing the steering wheel, but still not too bad for a model that is over 75 years old. The original tinplate insert is present and figures were added  as I collected them at a later date.

Chris.

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Chris---Very interesting piece, and it just goes to confirm that Meccano did all kinds of special models over the years, that were never catalogued, and today are quite rare. I have never seen that one before, and apparently missed seeing it in the GBDY. Thanks for showing us!
Best regards, Terry

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The camouflaged version is very special indeed! Some photos of the final version of this model, the U.S export version, with fixed driver (the old one with spread arms instead of the later drivers with straightforward arms) and rounded axle ends. Dave showed his wonderful trade box with these later models above already, some individual photos in more detail below:

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Jan---A superb example......you don't see very many with the rounded axle ends like that. Another great pre-war issued model that seems to define what Dinky's were about, from that period through the early 1950's. A classic model for sure!
Best regards, Terry

Chris1
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Here is my collection of 151b 6-wheel Covered Wagons. I have coupled them with the equivalent 161b Anti-Aircraft Gun on Trailer, except for the camouflaged version which is with a camouflaged 151c Cooker Trailer.

PHOTO 1 - This is actually the 161 Mobile Anti-Aircraft Unit. The lorry has the searchlight in the back and a tin-plate seat across the front of the tray. It has domed wheels and fine ribbed tyres.

PHOTO 2 - The rare camouflaged version which was only issued at Christmas, 1940, as a special relase for Hamleys shop in London. This has domed wheels with smooth tyres 

PHOTO 3 - Pre-war version with thin axles, fine ribbed tryes and domed wheels. Available between1937 & 1941.

PHOTO 4 - Immediate post-war version with larger axles and ridged wheels. It was available between 1945 & 1954.

PHOTO 5 - The brown coloured version which was made for the American market. Only issued between 1950 & 1954.

PHOTO 6 - Referenced 620, this was another export only version for the American market. It has domed wheels, a driver which is fixed in, and no hole in the seat for a passenger.

As far as I am aware these are all the versions of the 151b, except for one described by Jacques Dujardin on his Dinky Toys CD, which is made of lead and has ridged wheels and ribbed tyres. Does anyone have one of these ? 

Regards,

Chris.

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Very nice, Chris, to see the trailers perfectly matching in age - and your detailed descriptions of all!

By the way: my example of the 161a AA Searchlight Lorry shows some traces of rust and a magnet sticks to it. Metal experts of my previous work did this experiment and convinced me that it must be cast of iron. Kind regards, Jan 

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In addition to Chris's fine pictures above some more related pictures now: the brown Transport Wagon in more detail, the brown one with its matching AA Gun on Trailer and finally the Wagon with its original pre-war trailer companions. Kind regards, Jan