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Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

-1952 UK catalogues

I'm working on an article about the beginning of the Dinky Toys catalogues UK after the war. Does anyone know anything about the existence of Dinky Toys catalogue UK 1952 ref.no. 16/152/50 (February) 16 pages and 16/452/50 (April) 16 pages. These are as the first UK catalogues mentioned in the 15th Ramsay's model toys catalogue, but I've them never seen anywhere. I myself have those of Sept. 1952 Ref.no. 15/852/165 16 pages and the 1952 International colour catalogue ref.no. 13/552/130 24 pages. I am a new member, for the first time in this forum and hope that the pictures of my catalogues are added.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Hello Jan

I have several early catalogues but in this reply under ADD NEW COMMENT I am unable to add any pictures. (Only by starting a new conversation under the same topic can this be done as far as I can tell with this new site.  I will do so when I have the time.)

My earliest UK catalogue  is 13/1050/80 12 pages. I also have those catalogues you have listed in addition I have a UK version that is identical to 13/552/130 except the 3d price is on the back cover and page 23 shows models that were introduced after November 1952, so this catalogue would have had a print date of 1252 or even 153. This could be the catalogue in Ramsay shown as "1953?".

With Australia, the following are the print numbers: 5/451/25, 5/352/37.5 and 13/852/12 (this catalogue has handwritten prices in ink against the model description.)

The above means Ramsay has to make some changes to the year when Dinky Toys catalogues were first issued.

Regards

Bruce  (150)

3 August 2015

 

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Thanks Bruce. I have sent an email to the webmaster David Kaun that no photos can be posted in a new comment. He is working on it to solve the problem. I also want to add pictures now in my comment but I am also not be able to do that, so I have to wait till the problem is solved. I hope that this reply is placed on the right place and added to the topic I started. Jan Oldenhuis (703)

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Just received Dinky Toys color catalogue Canada 1952 ref.no. 13/852/25 with a Canadian shop stamp.

Now I have eight different covers of the 1952 international color catalogue. 4 UK and 4 International.

Bruce, I hope you will find the time now to add pictures of the covers from your Australian catalogues. The DTCA website is now ready for that.

I am curious how they look like.

Regards, Jan.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

In reply to Bruce: I have also the 1950 UK catalogue. Remarkable that Ramsay starts with UK DT catalogues in 1952 (1952-1978), while the first full UK DT catalogue after the war was published in 1950. All countries started with a continuous serie of catalogues in 1950, even France in 1949. Only for UK there is a gap in 1951, because no full UK catalogue was published in 1951. I possess one UK DT 1951 illustrated leaflet ref.no. 16/551/15 and three UK 1951 illustrated General Meccano fold out leaflets with Dinky Toys, ref.nrs. 16/251/33; 16/651/75 and 16/1051/25, all with 8 pages. I can add pictures now and can add information to the pictures so the comments can be made complete now. Congratulations for the new website of DTCA and good work from the webmaster and all the people working on the construction of the website.  

I have also an UK 1952 international colour catalogue Price 3d without ref.no, with an UK dealer print. There are differences in "The new models in preparation" on page 23 of both catalogues. According to the Dinky Toy compendium of Patrick Trench in volume 4 of the Hornby Companion Series are The new models in preparation of those with ref.no. 13/552/130 issued in 1952 (so it is a 1952 catalogue), while those without ref.no. were issued in 1953, so the last catalogue perhaps may be published after the Sept 1952 catalogue and may be just dated 1953? That's the question and the problem of no print code. All catalogues have a print code but just this one has not. Maybe that's why a question mark is behind the 1953 no ref. catalogue in the Ramsay. Remarkable in this case is that from the international catalogue without ref.nr. only model 23f, 25y and 29h of the "recent additions to the range of Dinky Toys" on page 22 are found in the UK Sept. 1952 catalogue and of all the "new models in preparation" on page 23 of the same catalogue even none model. This indicates that this catalogue  must have been published after the Sept 1952 catalogue and in line of the reply of Bruce, perhaps 1252 or even 153. Production  of "new models" went obvious not so fast before publishing new models in the Sept. 1952 catalogue.  In the meantime of construction of the website I discovered a mistake in the list of UK catalogues in the Ramsay that solves my question in the begining. The first two 1952 UK DT catalogues in the Ramsay, mentioned in the beginning of this topic, were placed in the wrong list. These are general Meccano products catalogues and belongs in the list of Meccano catalogues of the Ramsay. I discovered the error because, besides the DT catalogues, I have almost all general UK Meccano catalogues and went to compare the DT list of Ramsay with the Meccano list of Ramsay. Remarkable is that also the colour catalogue 1952 Price 3d ref. 13/552/130 is not mentioned in the Ramsay.  It was the first colour catalogue after the war and international in total 6 languages with no prices and the note: "Ask your dealer for the latest complete price list", so it is a very special catalogue for much countries. I possess one international catalogue for the Belgium market with the print code 13/852/3 (only 3000 copies!!) with exactly the same content as the UK catalogue with ref.nr. 13/552/130 Price 3d. Perhaps there are more country specific copies of these 1952 international colour catalogue? I possess 7 international colour catalogues 1952 with different covers, 4 UK 1952 Price 3d with UK dealer print and 3 international  1952 without Price 3d, all with identical content. I'll send a message about all this to the editor of the Ramsay. I am a contact person for the Ramsay catalogue before additions of the Dutch DT section, but send also additions/informations about UK, USA and French DT catalogues.

So my first question in this topic is solved, but I have still some related questions:

1) Does someone know about the explanation of the first digits of the print code. I know the explanation of Mike and Sue Richardson about the print code, but they explained nothing about the first digits.  I also know an article about this from Hector Luis Spinelli in talkmodeltoys that says: The first digits means the code for the type of catalogue, but did not further explain the types. I am a collector of DT and Meccano catalogues and would like to know in order to explain the first digit of the code.

2) Does there exist a production list from the Binns Road factory/office of all printed UK DT (and Meccano) catalogues/leaflets  with print codes?  Archives, Musea, employers of Binns Road? That would be more reliable and a perfect guide for all collectors (and can be used to update the Ramsay catalogue). I'm from the Netherlands and don't know what kind of information of the Binns Road factory / office has been preserved.

Jan Oldenhuis (703)

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Jan, nice discussion about catalogues. I'm no specialist in that field. Of course a huge amount of archival and other documentary information about the factory and Dinky Toys has been scattered all around in the past decades. However, I did some research in the Meccano business archives in Liverpool in 2001. I had no eye for catalogue information then, searching for other information. You might consider contacting them about the specific archival pieces you are looking for.

I have no idea about the chance of success, but it might be worth a try.

Here is the link to the collecion, included as it is in the archives of the Merseyside Maritime Museum in Liverpool. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F172556

Kind regards, Jan

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Jan. Thank you for this information. I sent an email and hope they can help me. Kind regards, Jan.

DavidT
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DTCA Member

Good afternoonthis time 

Have been looking at my price lists trying to establish what I am missing, cannot find a check list of the price lists known, is there one?

Mine are

1/138/50

16/840/50 (UK)

16/245/50

1946 Missing

1947 Missing

1948 Missing

16/449/100 UK

16/449/6.5 export

16/1049/100 UK

16/250/100-C2091 UK

16/1050/160-C3476 UK

16/651/75  C5198 UK

16/1051/25 C5745 UK

16/753/100 UK

16/454/50

April 1954 7454/150  pictures  in colour

16/857/500

10/758/450

16/158/100 (1stP.)

Would just like to know what I am looking for.

David

DavidT
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DTCA Member

Regarding the last digets of the code, think that refers to the number printed in thousands. Collect cards issued by Ogdens, the factory was  about a mile from Binns Road, and they used a similar code but often placed the letter 'm' following the didgets which signified the roman numeral for a 1000, this was used a little earlier though 1900-1940, so perhaps the same.

The Meccano parts price list use the same code 16/650/100  Eng/Univ.

David