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dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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-621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

David,

As you have three variations of this model, could you please check the base plates ?

According to the picture above, it seems that the base plates are not folded in the same way. The assy drawing 13 940 does not mention a variation but if there is, it would probably be mentioned on the base plate drawing # 13 944.

Thanks for your help.


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Jacques and David

Attached is an image of my second 621 that came in a yellow box with the oval in black on the picture sides. I have another one in a plain yellow box, and its base plate is identical. Looking at the tyres at the start of this Thread, the base plate appears to be a later variation as the tyres are block tread. Both of my models are the original smooth type.

Bruce


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Here are the three Bedfords you refer to Jacques.

Unfortunately, as I have run out of room in my cabinets, two of the three have been sold. I have just kept the oldest one (No driver and smooth tyres).

It has the same folding as your older one. I never photographed the baseplates on the ones I sold.

Dave


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Bruce and Dave,

Thank you for your answer, lets see if somebody else has the later variation with the treaded tyres.

I knew the box with the red oval on the pictures sides and the red / yellow box but not the plain box or the one with the black oval. Could you please send me the pictures for the Encyclop


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Jacques
The following is an image of one of my 621 3 Ton Army Wagon showing the sales number within a black oval. I have not photographed my other 621 in the plain yellow box, but will do so as soon as weather permits. This model is the subject of the bottom view shown above. In the last two or so years I have adopted the practice of photographing every model in my collection from both sides, front and rear, underneath, and if need be, from on top. I have also included the box as well, ensuing the model does not obscure the box.
Kind regards

Bruce
. . .

. . .


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Hi Jacques.
Here are mine.
The variations that I see, if I compare it to your photo, concern the hook rivet and the injection traces and specially the one on the left side wich is very prominent : a little bit more than 1mm thick.

Kind regards

Richard


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

in fact, it's on the right side of the truck !


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Thank you Bruce and Richard.

Now, I can confirm the variation which applies to the late issue with treaded tyres.

The folding of the base plate is different.

Richard

The variations of the ejectors is due to wear and is not considered as a variation. The different shapes of rivets is also not a variation. If it was there would be dozens of variations.


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

I am agree Jacques.


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Perhaps superfluous: same observations for both variants in my collection. Jan


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Jacques
While scrolling through eBay I came across a 621 with the original smooth tyres, in a yellow picture box with red oval, that shows the base plate the same as the ones with the block treaded tyres. So the theory that this is a later variation may not be necessarily correct.
My apologies for the quality of the image showing the box.
So, what do we make of all this? Two styles of base plates in existence simultaneously or what?
Bruce


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Variations or changes rarely happen at the same time or in other words with the same manufacturing run.

This means that the change of base plate occured before the change of tyres which was in April 1958. was this in June 1954 when the driver was added ? Again, if the drawings were accessible, we would know the dates of the changes. That date is not mentioned on the asembly drawing Job 13 940, it must be on the base plate drawing job 13 944.

There is always the possibility of hybrid models during the change but not in this case.

Anyway thank you for finding this transitional variation.

Jacques.


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

This is the side profile of the 621 previously submitted. I will leave it to you to work out when the base plate change took place. According to my Meccano drawing of the 621, the driver was added to Job No. 13940 on 11 June 1954.The Base was Job No. 13944 and there are no comments concerning its alteration.

Actually you already have these details! My drawing has some corrections with the length in red, as well as some blue biro changes, so it must have been used by the design staff.
Regards
Bruce


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Bruce,

I have a copy of this drawing and the change of the base plate is not mentioned. The date of the change in the folding must be on the base plate drawing job 13 944 but where is this drawing ?

All these drawings were together when some body not very clever (what can you expect from a politician) auctionned them in Bourges without keeping copies. This was a huge mistake as now these important documents are all over the world and nobody knows where.

Dam him.


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Jacques

Hopefully one of these days, we may yet see these drawings appear on auction when the individual needs the cash, or he is about to meet his Maker! Until then, all we can do is keep alive the interest in obtaining these invaluable items of a unique part of the toy history of the 20th Century.
In the meantime, the image below is of my 621 drawing office print of Job 13940 which clearly shows the corrections that were made in the Drawing Office. Also attached is a copy of Job No. 13892 for the 623 Army Covered Wagon which shows the model was originally intended to be Sales Number 153c.

Bruce


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Bruce,

If you could provide colour scans of these two drawings and any others in actual size, I would be pleased to add them to the Encyclopaedia.

The 153 series came in at the time of re-numbering, only the Jeep was issued with a 153 number.

153 a Jeep US
153 b Scout car
153 c Bedford army covered wagon
153 d Daimler armoured car
153 e Austin Champ army vehicle


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

The best thing for the DTCA community would be to upload your (and everyone else's) factory drawings full-size to the Members' Menu - Document Archive!
Best regards, Jan


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

dinkycollect wrote:Re:621 - 3 ton army wagon. 2 Months ago Karma: 2 Karma+ Karma-
Bruce,

If you could provide colour scans of these two drawings and any others in actual size, I would be pleased to add them to the Encyclopaedia.

The 153 series came in at the time of re-numbering, only the Jeep was issued with a 153 number.

153 a Jeep US
153 b Scout car
153 c Bedford army covered wagon
153 d Daimler armoured car
153 e Austin Champ army vehicle

janwerner wrote:
"The best thing for the DTCA community would be to upload your (and everyone else's) factory drawings full-size to the Members' Menu - Document Archive!
Best regards, Jan"

Dear Jacques and Jan
Up-loading full size factory drawings to the Member's Menu has caused me considerable concern. Unlike those that have already been up-loaded in the Factory Drawings section of the Member's Menu, I have had to pay a considerable sum of money to acquire these drawings which no doubt is applicable to other members who have purchased similar items. The DTCA was indeed very fortunate that Mike Richardson provided the Association with access to these to be up-loaded into the DTCA website prior to them being sold through auction such as Sotherby's. One should also bear in mind that these were freely gathered from the factory at the time of its closure that in effect saved them from destruction for which we as collectors owe Mike a deep sense of gratitude, and good on him for having ultimately made a considerable amount of money as a result of their ultimate sale.
However, at some point in the future I will be selling my collection, if anything to hopefully fully, if not partially offset what they cost me. Having them available online would in effect make these worthless as most are factory die-line prints and not the original drawings, although I do have several of the latter which may still retain their value.
I do not like making it appear that I am cash-starved - simply stating a fact. This conservative approach has not deterred me from sharing these drawings on this website, although at a size which would preclude any copying. To be seen in the Forum and not in the Member's Only may in fact result in a visitor to this site becoming a member.
Then of course adding them freely to any product that is sold without some form of recompense, would be quite unfair.
I am open to any comments or suggestions.

Bruce


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

Dave

I thoroughly enjoyed your article in the Xmas issue of Model Collector magazine, "A tale of two Bedfords".  The Great Train Robbery was a major news story in 1963 even in Australia, and I read every newspaper and magazine story on this event.  It would have been more "glamorous" had the robbers not inflicted terrible injuries on the train driver.

But I wonder how Reynolds and Biggs were able to autograph these models! Congratulations on acquiring a piece of history! I could not think of a better home for it to reside than yours!

I often had thoughts of being able to visit where the robbery took place, and eventually on 11 October 2013, after navigating our way to Buckinghamshire my wife and I (plus my trusty 192 Desoto Fireflite!) finally reached the Bridego Railway Bridge which is now known as the Mentmore Bridge. (Why the name change I have no idea unless it was a play on the words that the robbers meant to take more cash!) In the photo below, the bushes on the left are growing over the track used by the robbers to carry their haul down to their waiting vehicles.

Ronnie Biggs fled eventually to Australia in 1966 where he stayed, moving from Sydney to Adelaide and then Melbourne, but with Interpol closing in on him, he fled to Panama and finally to Brazil in 1969. He died in London just two months after our visit to the site of the robbery.

But a great acquisition Dave! Top marks!

Bruce

(150)20160311/831/2120

 


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Re : -621 Bedford RL 3 ton Army Wagon (1954-63)

I have today been shown a very near-mint, boxed 621 by a friend. The unusual thing about the model is that it has the blue and yellow insignia transfer normally found on the Ambulance. Not a significant variation, of course, but evidence of perhaps a little carelessness on the assembly line which also escaped the inspectors. I will try to get photographs, and check the box, tyre and baseplate style. I don't recall ever seeing another with this transfer.