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dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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Catalogues

THE FOLLOWING THREE POSTS HAVE BEEN TRANSFERED FROM THE THREAD "COLOUR VARIANTS" WERE THEY WERE OFF TOPIC.

There are many examples of catalogues showing the wrong colour. The drawings of the catalogues were often made from the wooden mock-up which had been painted at least a year before the final decision of colour was made or from colour samples. The catalogs may also have gone to the printer to be ready for the launching of the model.

The Encyclopaedia contains several of these miss coloured drawings.

Could Dave and Bruce email me large scans of their documents to add to the CD ?

Thanks.

Jacques.


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Re : Catalogues

Jacques

I quite agree that there are numerous examples of incorrect colours being used with catalogues, but here is an example, not only the wrong colour, but the wrong model! The 140 Morris 1100 was only issued as a four door, not as shown, a two-door, and also only in light blue.

Below it is a 130 Ford Consul Corsair - wrong colour.

This is from the first printing of the 1964 catalogue and it continued with the second printing and the Australian edition, so no doubt all the other editions for that year. The catalogue also has a number of other inaccuracies. A case of someone not happy with the prospect of a change in ownership of a unique institution?

Bruce.


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Re : Catalogues

Bruce,

This is already recorded but note that on the catalogues and the yellow boxes, the Corsair is a four door saloon, the Dinky model is a two doors.

There are other interesting or amazing errors in the catalogues.

The 1961 Portugese catalogue states that the ladder on the 555 Fire engine is from Magirus.

The 1960 Swiss catalogue on page 16 states that the Forward control lorry ref. 25 r / 420 is a Leyland.

On the 1951 Dutch catalogue, a suffix Z has been added to some only of the French Dinky.

In the 1955 catalogue printed in the U.S. for this country only, a letter F has been added to the reference number of the models made in France.

On the French 1957 catalogue, the drawing of the car carrier is wrong : the wind screen is in one piece only and the crank of the trailer's upper deck is on the wrong side.

The 1959 US catalogue states that the trailer of the 666 is a landing platform ! I doubt that the NASA has succeeded such an accurate landing yet.

The catalogues were printed twice. First the drawings and no text. The texts in different languages were added on the second printing. So any errors in the drawings is seen in every country edition when text errors are specific to a language.

Any more comments on catalogues will be most welcomed.

Jacques.


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Re : Catalogues

Jacques

My post was not "off topic", admittedly the different colours appeared in a CATALOGUE rather then a LEAFLET - still they concern the same topic raised by Dave under the subject of COLOUR VARIANTS.
I have therefore re-posted my last post back in the COLOUR VARIANTS thread as a topic of interest.
Finally, how much is your CD on Dinky Toys? This is Off-topic but you have raised this subject in other threads.

Bruce


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Re : Catalogues

dinkycollect wrote:
"Bruce,

This is already recorded but note that on the catalogues and the yellow boxes, the Corsair is a four door saloon, the Dinky model is a two doors.

There are other interesting or amazing errors in the catalogues.

The 1961 Portugese catalogue states that the madder on the 555 Fire engine is from Magirus.

The 1960 Swiss catalogue on page 16 states that the Forward control lorry ref. 25 r / 420 is a Leyland.

On the 1951 Dutch catalogue, a suffix Z has been added to some only of the French Dinky.

In the 1955 catalogue printed in the U.S. for this country only, a letter F has been added to the reference number of the models made in France.

On the French 1957 catalogue, the drawing of the car carrier is wrong : the wind screen is in one piece only and the crank of the trailer's upper deck is on the wrong side.

The 1959 US catalogue states that the trailer of the 666 is a landing platform ! I doubt that the NASA has succeeded such an accurate landing yet.

The catalogues were printed twice. First the drawings and no text. The texts in different languages were added on the second printing. So any errors in the drawings is seen in every country edition when text errors are specific to a language.

Any more comments on catalogues will be most welcomed.

Jacques."

Jacques

When I wrote about a second printing, I am not writing about the printing process, but a new version of the existing catalogue when stock for the first printing has been exhausted.


The printing code for the first catalogue, January 1964.


The printing code for the second catalogue printing, July 1964.

The Australian version of the 1964 catalogue, printed in March 1964 does not have the printing code on the back cover where it is located on the UK edition, but on the front within the white circle where the UK had the price of 3d as shown below.

By the way, with your comments on the 1961 Portuguese catalogue, you wrote: "the madder on the 555 Fire engine is from Magirus." I presume "madder" is ladder, but I'm unsure as to what "Magirus" means.

Kind regards

Bruce (150)


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Re : Catalogues

Bruce,

You are right, I misunderstood your post and I made a misprint of "madder" insted of "ladder" and I have corrected this.

Magirus is a German manufacturer of trucks and fire engines. It is now part of the Iveco group and is the world leader in fire engines.

That the manufacturer of the ladder on the 555 Dinky fire engine is a model of a Magirus ladder remains to be proved, but why not.

The ladder on the 568 and 956 is certainly not a Magirus as stated by Roulet. The Brits would not have used a foreing ladder on their Dinky when there was a British manufacturer making similar items. An article published in the November 1952 issue of the British Meccano Magazine is about the British manufacturer John Morris and sons Ltd of Salford England.


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Re : Catalogues

I quickly gathered some catalogue/advertising picture curiosities. Some are single incidents but others are repeated in other catalogues or issues, and there are many more. Here they come:


Meccano Magazine March 1949 showing the repeated quite different style representation of the Single Deck Bus, also assuming windows.


Meccano Magazine February 1951 announcing a logo-less Trojan delivery Van


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Re : Catalogues

Yes Jan ! nobody's perfect .... even our idol !

Richard


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Re : Catalogues

Following on with Jan's huge dissertation are these two.

First the 1963 USA catalogue with a print number of 13/563/50 Printed in England, 72548/22 and the 1963 Canadian catalogue (overprint of the 1963 US catalogue) with a print number of 13/1063/50 also Printed in England, 72548/42

Notice we now have the 140 Morris 1100 in the correct blue, but still with only two doors, and of course the 145 Singer Vogue remains in yellow, as mentioned in another thread, "New Arrivals". (Unless those posts have already been transferred to this thread.)

And here we have the first/cover page for each catalogue:


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Re : Catalogues

For the information in catalogues one is hardly dependent on paper anymore, digital information on the web and other devices tells enough about availability, colours, dating, prices, etc., etc. Still, whenever a very cheap catalogue comes along, I seize it, not strictly for the information, but for the print- and artwork too.
Today the 30 page French 1957 Meccano catalogue arrived (15 euros only), a very good example. It is so well executed, showing the programme of Meccano, the Hornby Trains and four wide spreads of available Dinky Toys. The quality of the pictures, despite done in black and white only, is marvellous, so well taken care of.
For an impression I post two details here, one of page 26 (100%) and one of the rear cover illustration (ca. 150%). Pixel limitations, however, cannot cope with the true quality. I have used my Photoshop software in order to get as close to colour, contrast and general image quality as I can:

Kind regards, Jan


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Re : Catalogues

Jan,

Very good value for your money. Unfortunately you have ct the page which shows the Unic multibenne with single windscreen. The Dinky model issued had a split screen.

Jacques.


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Re : Catalogues

Hello Jan and everyone,

like you I have also acquired a good collection of catalogues from several countries which have much period appeal, as well as providing useful information. However, from time to time, one appears which holds special interest (at least for me):

I grew up in Twickenham, an outer suburb of London, and Beazley's was my local toyshop - they would change their window displays about every four weeks, and I would gaze in their window looking at the new Dinky arrivals - not that I received many! Although this is not strictly Dinky, I think it qualifies for this thread. Over the last dozen years I have compiled a list of all the dealer's names which were overprinted on both Dinky and Meccano catalogues in the U.K. between 1953 and 1960, and currently have a list of around 350 dealers - these are all from catalogues which have been listed on eBay over the last six or seven years - my task now is to compile it as a Word document alphabetically by town.

The above catalogue is not mine from childhood, I came across it only around 18 months ago on eBay and had to have it, although it was not at all expensive! I googled the address on 'street view' and see that the shop now sells musical instruments - ah, progress!

Regards, Adrian.


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Re : Catalogues

Adrian

Nice having the "local touch" with the agent's names on the cover of the various catalogues. For someone like me who has only visited the UK, all the various shops mean nothing, although I can well visualize each store and their window displays as something similar happened in my home town of Armidale. Each Christmas a local department store had a toy display in one of their shop windows, complete with a Hornby Dublo layout and all the latest Dinky Toys. Each day a staff member no doubt had to remove the countless finger and nose marks off the glass!

I can certainly help you with your list, as I too have an extensive collection of Dinky and Meccano catalogues, price lists and leaflets. Just let me know when you would like me to start scanning in case I have a store missing from your list!

Kind regards

Bruce


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Re : Catalogues

Another nice one came in last week:

One minor tear (< 1 cm) on the right side of the cover, for the rest as new, 17 euros, postage included ... Although the information and the images are widely known and amply present on my discs, I like the print-work!
Kind regards, Jan


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Re : Catalogues

Another error in the color scheme of some models is the picture of the 189 Triumph Herald just issued in May 1959, as shown in this UK catalog.
It appears as all blue, when the typical toys were always painted 2-tone light blue/white or green/white. Perhaps it was a slip of the publishers on a preview of the promotional colors that were offered simultaneously with the introduction of the real car? The monotone blue color was one of the many variations offered by Meccano based on Standard-Triumph color scheme for this new model, to be given free at UK dealers.


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Re : Catalogues

There was also an error with the Herald in the French 1964 catalogue.


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Re : Catalogues

55Zephyr wrote:
"Hello Jan and everyone,

like you I have also acquired a good collection of catalogues from several countries which have much period appeal, as well as providing useful information. However, from time to time, one appears which holds special interest (at least for me):

I grew up in Twickenham, an outer suburb of London, and Beazley's was my local toyshop - they would change their window displays about every four weeks, and I would gaze in their window looking at the new Dinky arrivals - not that I received many! Although this is not strictly Dinky, I think it qualifies for this thread. Over the last dozen years I have compiled a list of all the dealer's names which were overprinted on both Dinky and Meccano catalogues in the U.K. between 1953 and 1960, and currently have a list of around 350 dealers - these are all from catalogues which have been listed on eBay over the last six or seven years - my task now is to compile it as a Word document alphabetically by town.

The above catalogue is not mine from childhood, I came across it only around 18 months ago on eBay and had to have it, although it was not at all expensive! I googled the address on 'street view' and see that the shop now sells musical instruments - ah, progress!

Regards, Adrian."

Adrian

Many thanks for bringing to our attention the dealer's names that were applied to Meccano and Dinky Toys catalogues. It got me to thinking with sharing some of the catalogue covers that contain a dealer's address which may bring back some memories for both our members and those who visit this website.

Adrian, have you been to any of these places? For me, I have been through London Bridge Station countless times, and Liverpool just the once. For other readers of this post, are any of these localities familiar to you?

Kind regards

Bruce (150)
#639
16 June 2015


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Re : Catalogues

Latindinkyfan09 wrote:
"Another error in the color scheme of some models is the picture of the 189 Triumph Herald just issued in May 1959, as shown in this UK catalog.
It appears as all blue, when the typical toys were always painted 2-tone light blue/white or green/white. Perhaps it was a slip of the publishers on a preview of the promotional colors that were offered simultaneously with the introduction of the real car? The monotone blue color was one of the many variations offered by Meccano based on Standard-Triumph color scheme for this new model, to be given free at UK dealers. "

Hello Latindinkyfan09/peperoni01

Jose?

The Australian catalogue also has the 189 in the same light blue colour scheme as does the UK version. I am wondering if it was a printer's decision in consultation with Meccano due to the white bonnet/hood of the actual model in green or light blue as the white bonnet would merge with the what page background! Although if that theory was correct, the 237 on page 7 would be in a different colour scheme! There is also the possibility that it was simply overlooked, although your theory may very well be acceptable. Anything is possible!

I hope we see more of you on these pages to swell the ranks of those participating!

Returning to the 1959 catalogue page 7 has an unusual scheme for the 238 Jaguar D Type Racing Car, which has the appearance of metallic grey or silver, although the scan below does not really do the colour justice. I hope I am not repeating something here with the colour of the 238, although a quick check of this Thread does not reveal it being mentioned.

Kind regards

Bruce (150)
#640
16 June 2015


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Re : Catalogues

Hi all,

This isn't about any errors in Dinky Catalogues, but provides a sad note to us Kiwis in the fact that Dinky Toys were not available to New Zealanders because of import restrictions in the 1950s.

A close up of the wording:

Hi Bruce,

Here is the front page of the catalogue. I have several copies of it and this one has the NZ dealer stamp. Whitcombe and Tombs were a nation wide chain of bookshops and also sold toys. I bought may of my Dinky Toys from the two local shops when I was young. Note this is a general Meccano catalogue and all other products of theirs could be bought in New Zealand except for Dinky Toys! I will check through the rest of my catalogues to see when the exclusion finished.

Interestingly, Ramsay's does not list any New Zealand market Dinky catalogues.

Ron F


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Re : Catalogues

Ron

No wonder we had an "invasion" from across the Tasman in the 1950s!!!! :laugh:

But seriously, the only question that comes to mind, is why was a catalogue amended to advise that Dinky Toys are generally unavailable in New Zealand at that time. (What was the print number for the catalogue and would you mind posting an image of its cover?) I wonder what is the meaning of "generally"! Does this mean that "some" were imported through the back door, or perhaps only a small quota was allowed to be imported. It must have angered little Dinky Toys collectors in those days when they also read on the same page, "Regular introductions of new models."

But what a sad thing to learn. Do you know how many years these restrictions were in place?

Kind regards

Bruce (150)
#642
16 June 2015


Latindinkyfan09
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Re : Catalogues

Hi Bruce:

Regarding the 'metallic blue' appearance of the 238 Jaguar Type D, it seems to me that
the color is correct, a bit enhanced with shining spots.
In the same page where the Herald is, the Studebaker Golden Hawk appears with red hubs,
while it was always sold with turned aluminum wheels. Another printing error?

Cheers, Jose.


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Re : Catalogues

Hello Jose

Thanks for your observation on the 238, although I still feel that it is a long way off the turquoise that it should be!

However, the catalogue showing the 169 Studebaker Golden Hawk is correct. The model was released with red ridged wheels.

Although the model was eventually shod with spun hubs a little later in its life, with most I have seen being packaged in a red and yellow plain sided box.

It is great seeing you "on The Forum".

Kind regards

Bruce (150)
#651
17 June 2005


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Re : Catalogues

More NZ catalogues:

1955/56 has the import restrictions.


No restriction in 1964. What are the letters by each model for? I guess the restrictions were lifted in 1960? I don't have any NZ catalogues between 1957 and 1964. How do the prices compare with Australia Bruce?

Ron F


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Re : Catalogues

micromodels wrote:
"More NZ catalogues:

1955/56 has the import restrictions.

I guess the restrictions were lifted in 1960? I don't have any NZ catalogues between 1957 and 1964. How do the prices compare with Australia Bruce?

Ron F"

Hello Ron

Here is the Australian Meccano catalogue for the same period, June 1955, with a print number of 13/655/50:

The above provides a comparison between the New Zealand and Australian prices, although I have no idea what the exchange rate was in 1955!

Kind regards

Bruce (150)
#655
17 June 2015


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Re : Catalogues

micromodels wrote:
"More NZ catalogues:

1955/56 has the import restrictions.

No restriction in 1964. What are the letters by each model for?

Ron F"

Ron

I have answered your original post in two parts. The first dealt with the 1955 Meccano catalogue and its comparison prices, and now this post with the 1964 catalogue. I think it will make it easier this way for readers of this Thread to read my response - or I hope so!!

The letters beside each model refers to the price group or category in which each model is placed. However, with the Australian version of this catalogue, these letters mean nothing as the price list has the models in numerical sales order. I presume your catalogue may be missing the price list.

Now we see where the letters originate - the UK catalogue:

I presume the Australian catalogue did not continue with the example set by the UK catalogue as there were too many variations with the Australian prices and that it was simply list the models by sales number.

Kind regards

Bruce (150)
#656
17 June 2015


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Re : Catalogues

The catalogues are often identical for all contries. The pictures are printed first without texts or prices. The texts in various languages and prices are added during a second printing.

Here is a very rare example of a 1958 catalogue with pictures only.

The catalogues may contain errors like this 1959 US catalogue which states that the trailer of the 666 is a landing platform !

The number of pages may vary because the French and English Dinky are not available in all countries. So there are catalogues with English Dinky, some with French Dinky and some with both productions. One can even find them both on the same page.

One can also find some information in the catalogues . The 1961 portugese catalogue states that the ladder of the 955 fire engine is from Magirus. Reality or error ?

The 1960 Swiss catalogue on page 16 states that the Forward control lorry ref. 25 r / 420 is a Leyland.


1951 Dutch catalogue page 11

A "z" suffix has been added to some French models exported to England.
The same applies with an " f " to some models exported to the Netherlands but amazingly not to all models. Why do the Ford trucks have this suffix and not the Studebaker or the cars ?
An other Meccano mystery.

In the 1955 catalogue printed in the U.S. for this country only, a letter F has been added to the reference number of the models made in France.

There are some examples where models have been published in catalogues and these models have never been issued. These are the Triumph Dolomite ref. 38 e, The Facelia ref. 519, the Simca 1000 Rallye II ref. 520, The Porsche 917 ref. 1431.

This light blue car carrier with black wings, one piece wind screen and trailer crank on the wrong side shown on page 16 of the 1957 catalogue has never been issued in this colour.
Many drawings shown in the catalogues show colours which have never been issued.
The drawing of the car carrier has two errors. The windscreen is missing it's center pilar and the crank is on the wrong side of the semi-trailer.

The 1962 English catalogue page 22 shows the Foden with chains fitted with window glazing and a tiny steering wheel. These accessories have never been fitted to this model. Also, the Leyland Octopus wagon has never been fitted with windows.

In this 1962 Dutch catalogue, the name of the models is not shown !

According to the quantities ordered, the catalogues were delivered in large or small boxes.


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Re : Catalogues

Hello Ron

Continuing our discussion earlier about the availability of Dinky Toys in New Zealand with you providing us with a copy of the cover and several interior pages for the 1956 Meccano Toys of Quality catalogue. I then went through my catalogues, and the only New Zealand Meccano Toys of Quality catalogue I have is for 1953, issued in September, and attached below are scans of the front and rear cover, and I was surprised to see that this catalogue also has the wording

THE FOLLOWING IN RED WAS OMITTED WHEN THIS POST WAS BROUGHT OVER FROM THE OLD WEBSITE. FORTUNATELY, I HAD RETAINED A COPY AT THE TIME. INTUITION?? MORE LIKE GOOD LUCK!!!

 “Dinky Toys generally are not available at present in New Zealand because of import restrictions.”

So we now know that the restrictions applied as early as September 1953 and at least until July 1956.  Perhaps this had something to do with the Korean War?  Hopefully you can track down earlier and later catalogues  that can provide a definitive period when Dinky Toys were “generally unavailable” in New Zealand!

Incidentally, you wrote in your initial post “Ramsay's does not list any New Zealand market Dinky catalogues.”  The reason this may have come about is that the publishers are completely unaware of the details of any New Zealand catalogues and leaflets.  The same partly applied to Australia as there were only a couple when I started to take this hobby seriously many years ago.  This resulted in many correspondence exchanges with John Ramsay himself when he was at the helm. Perhaps you may wish to advise the current editors of the Ramsay price guide of all the catalogues you and others in New Zealand have. Do you have any Australian catalogues that have not been included in the Ramsay price guide?

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

#686

29 June 2015


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Re : Catalogues

Dave K (Moderator)

This Post #27 is incomplete. Can you please check the original site and fill in the missing words/sentences/paragraphs that somehow have not made it onto the new website? Apologies for burdening you with more tasks!

Many thanks.

Bruce   (150)  #740

1 January 2016    23:28AEST


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Re : Catalogues

Mr Moderator

Please delete the above request as I located a copy of the original Post in my DTCA files - fortunately, and have added the missing words to the Post.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

5 January 2016

#744


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Re : Catalogues

WHOOPS!  THE TEXT IN RED DID NOT WORK! BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME!!

Bruce


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Re : Catalogues

Kia Ora Bruce,

I have found a few more Dinky Toys catalogue for New Zealand. 1961 and 1962 show that they are available in New Zealand at that stage. I have not seen the NZ one you have for 1953. I don't think there were any Dinky Toy catalogues before 1961 in New Zealand as they could not be bought here. They did appear in the general Meccano catalogues with the warning about the import restrictions. This was a policy of the government of the time to balance the terms of trade that I won't detail here. At the time there was a lot of immigration from the UK at this time so some Dinky Toys did appear on the second hand market from new settlers, etc. Micro Models (Lincoln Toys) were the reason Dinky could not come in to NZ. Even though most tooling was from Australia, they were actually manufactured in Auckland. Other companies like Tri-ang had factories here so they imported their toys in a knock-down state.

Here is the 1961 Dinky Toys catalogue:

and a 1962 leaflet:

Sorry I don't have any Australian catalogues.

Ron F


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