Club News

 

User login

New Comments

-508 DAF

2 weeks 21 hours ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 1 day ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 1 day ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 1 day ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

2 weeks 6 days ago

-508 DAF

3 weeks 1 day ago

-508 DAF

3 weeks 1 day ago

-508 DAF

3 weeks 1 day ago

New arrivals

3 weeks 1 day ago

New arrivals

3 weeks 2 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 3 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 4 days ago

ORIGINAL MECCANO DINKY TOYS FACTORY BOX ART 175 HILLMAN MINX SALOON + DRAWING

3 weeks 4 days ago

--29c and 290 Double Decker Bus (1938-63)

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 5 days ago

--29c and 290 Double Decker Bus (1938-63)

3 weeks 5 days ago

--29c and 290 Double Decker Bus (1938-63)

3 weeks 5 days ago

DTCAwebsite upgrade 2023

3 weeks 6 days ago

-508 DAF

1 month 1 day ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 1 week ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 1 week ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 1 week ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

Dinky 582/982 Pullmore - Dark Blue Cab/Dark Blue Body

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

New arrivals

1 month 2 weeks ago

--62n Junkers Ju 90 Air Liner (1938-1941)

1 month 2 weeks ago

Visitors

  • Total Visitors: 1649895
  • Registered Users: 384
  • Published Nodes: 1679
  • Since: 02/22/2024 - 14:52
22 posts / 0 new
Last post

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA

-465 Morris Van 'Capstan' (1957-59)

I was surprised to not see a posting already on this little commercial van, so having recently purchased a nice example, I decided to post my comments.  To me, this is somewhat of a curiousity, as it was only made for 3 years.....1957-1959, and was a re-use of the existing 260 Royal Mail Van.  Jan has written a very nice article about this on Talk Model Toys, and you can still find it there, but to somewhat summarize previous comments, it is a puzzle why Dinky did not make other livery versions of this.  It is a very nice casting of a popular delivery van, used for many years.  Some thought has been expressed that due to the fact it was advertising cigarettes, which were even then starting to fall out of favor, that it never really caught on as a model.  It has also received scant attention from the toy community, and is seldom written about.  The Royal Mail van was made from 1955 through 1961, and was very popular, and also plentiful.  The Capstan version, however, being made for only three years, and never hugely popular, has turned into a somewhat expensive acquisition, especially if wanted in boxed, very nice or near mint condition.  For some reason, I too did not buy one years ago, and only the past few years decided that I really needed to have one for my collection, so I started looking.  I saw quite a few listed for sale, but most are not in really nice condition, and the light blue paint tends to show every tiny flaw, either in the paint or the casting itself.  It is a striking two-tone color combination, that Dinky did quite well, but for me, I prefer the solid, single color of the Royal Mail van.....I think it flatters the vehicle a bit more.

        Best regards,  Terry

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member

Hello Terry

Nice seeing your new Thread on this great little model!  I bought mine from Vectis in 2013 having had several others in the past, none of which met my criteria! I was intrigued with what the cataloguer meant when he/she wrote "nice bright example in generally yellow carded picture box"!! (What is a "generally yellow carded picture box"? It is either a yellow carded picture box or it is not. Cannot have it both ways!!) Still the model and it's "generally carded picture box" is a fine addition to the collection.

I think the reason the casting never made it to any other brands are the back windows with their "secure mesh"! Cigarettes and mail obviously require great protection!

Anyway, herewith are some more details to compliment your fine Post, starting with the March 1957 Meccano Magazine, and then to the second printing of the August 1957 Australian Price Leaflet, print code 16/757/15 (2P), DT/CF/4.

And finally, my own 265 Morris Commercial Van "Capstan" together with its "generally yellow carded picture box"!

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

6 January 2016

#745

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA

Thanks Bruce. I have read elsewhere that some think it was cheap mistake on Meccano's part to leave in the rear window screen and locking bar, instead of modeling it correctly for other than mail van purposes. But that would have meant either modifying that die (and not making anymore Mail Vans), or creating a new, costly die, so they took the easy route. But still a very nice little van, well worth collecting. Thanks for the additional info, especially the Meccano Magazine article, which is always nice to read.
Best regards, Terry

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member

As always, your comments are more than welcome Terry.

While you were writing, I was editing my original Post by adding some comments with tongue in cheek on the description of the model in the 14 May 2013 auction at Vectis.

Yes it would have been expensive to have altered the mould, which would have not served any purpose, as only little boys would be playing with it.  More than likely Meccano decided to bring this model out to further utilize an existing mould and thus  increase the Company's revenue. 

I only bought mine as the model is a unique part of a world now gone forever.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

6 January 2016

#746

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Terry, Bruce, I believe the 'Capstan' was just an initially unplanned 'incident'. If a series of these Morris vans had been conceived both the casting and base plate of the Royal Mail van would no doubt have been given more general characteristics (without serious concessions). Kind regards, Jan 

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA

Jan---I think you are quite right; Meccano probably initially made this as a dedicated Royal Mail Van, and had no plans to re-use or re-issue it in another form. Then a late decision was made to squeeze out a few more units, via a slightly different model, thus the Capstan was born. If they had planned a series of different liveries, they would have proceeded differently from the start.
Best regards, Terry

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member

Jan

You are perfectly correct with the base plate - I had forgotten to mention this in my haste to submit my Post!

Changing the base plate would have been a necessity which would have involved the least expense. Although only using the new, unnumbered base plate for just one model when at least one other could have been issued, such as a secure document  courier van for instance does not make all that much sense, but I presume Meccano had taken this into consideration.

Still it does not detract from a great little model, whose short production life has meant a small production figure which is reflected in its current value, although this has decreased slightly over the years.  I have the 465 listed in the Dinky Toys Order Form for September 1959, Reference D/T9/15 but not in the Order Form for the following month, October 1959, it being the only commercial van that was no longer available for dealers to order. This then means the 465 was in production for two and a half years, March 1957 to September 1959.

Terry - you are also quite correct when you wrote that Meccano was simply squeezing a little more life out of a model, although the 260 Royal Mail Van itself was also on the way out, with it last appearing in a Dinky Toys Order Form in June 1960 and a price list issued the same month Reference 16/660/100.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

7 January 2016

#750

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Online
DTCA MemberFrance

Terry,

Changing the rear windows and door locking system does not mean making an other die but only the small part for the rear doors. This has been done later when the Triumph Vitesse was made in the Herald's die and the scarce Daimler in the Jaguar die. There may be other examples as well.

The reason for the Capstan may of course be to make further use of a die when the sales of the postal van were declining, it may also be an order from Imperial Tobacco to make a code 1 promotional. At that time some manufacturers paid Meccano a small fee to have their name on the Dinky. We know that some vehicle manufacturers paid for the die and had to buy the first 500 models at full price. One known example of a manufacturer paying for the tooling is the 976 - Michigan 180 - 111 tractor dozer.

Once more, we have several possible answers for a question and will probably never know which answer is the right one.

By the way, do you know that this "Express Delivery Van" was a single seater ?

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

This single seat for the driver configuration was quite normal in the 1950s and 60s. It meant more room for goods and more profit.

Dave

fodenway's picture
fodenway
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Another significant real-life difference between regular production vans and those for the Royal Mail was the front wings (fenders) and headlamps.

The Royal Mail specified front wings made from rubber (as did British Railways on many of their vehicles) on many of their vans rather than the normal steel versions so as to be more resistant to minor bumps and scrapes. On the Morris J van, this meant securing the headlamps to the cab sides rather than the normal position on the wing tops. This feature, and the security mesh and external locking bar was correctly modelled by Dinky. Most real non-mail vans also lacked the front bumper.

Another possible explanation for the deletion of both models was that in real life, the "J" van had been replaced by the more modern J2 (as modelled by Matchbox as the blue Builders Pickup truck, number 60), and was looking decidedly "old fashioned" by that time.

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Nice, Kevin, to see that yellow Foden Tanker in your avatar. Is that a new National Benzole creation of yours? It looks wonderful in yellow (like the Studebaker does). And what reference number did you attribute to that one on the box, 504 or ... ? (sorry to be a bit off-topic here, just curious). Kind regards, Jan 

fodenway's picture
fodenway
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Hi Jan,

Yes, it is one of my "what if" creations, and it came about after I saw the box for sale on the internet. Whoever made the box gave it the number 942. I then found a badly repainted Foden on Ebay, stripped it and did the repaint, and the transfers were made for me by a friend of a friend.

 Kevin.

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA

Kevin I would like to see a couple of nice pics of that if you can; it looks very nice, and makes you wonder if Dinky should made a yellow variant. Regards, Terry

fodenway's picture
fodenway
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

Hi Terry, 

 Perhaps Admin will move this to a more appropriate category, but here is my Foden National Benzole tanker. I agree that Dinky could have made  more livery variations on many of their castings, tankers were particularly colourful and attractive.

 Kevin.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member

Kevin

I hope you will not be holding your breath for the administrator/moderator to transfer your Post and those from Terry relating to your beautifully restored Foden tanker and its unique box, as I have posted several comments concerning the old Forum and my missing and incomplete Posts (which also affect many others as well) and these Posts go back to the 1st and 5th January and none of my Posts have been acted upon nor have I received any direct communication. It appears that once Posts have reached the #15 of the RECENT COMMENTS they just drop off the radar.

However, you do have a number of choices where your Post can go:

DTCA MEMBER INFORMATION AND DINKY TOYS PREFERENCES Forum 

and then DINKY RESTORATION thread

GENERAL INFORMATION AND POSTS Forum

and then RESTORERS

DINKY TOYS TECHNICAL DISCUSSIONS Forum

and then RESTORING DINKY TOYS Thread

The transfer of all the Posts in this Thread not related to the 465 Morris Commercial Van "Capstan"has to be acted on soon BY THOSE WHO MANAGE THIS WEBSITE before it becomes swamped with unrelated Posts.

Kind regards

Bruce  (150)

14 January 2016           #753

 

DFKaun (not verified)

Hello Kevin, Bruce, et al,

The administrator can move then entire topic, in this case "465 Morris Van "Capstan" (1957-1959)", but not a post within the topic.

If the topic you wish to post in is not there you can create it.

Here are the instructions for

Creating a new topic in the DTCA Forum

 

1. After logging onto the DTCA website select “Publications > PDF Library.

Click on “DTCA-Forum-Topics”.

Scroll down to find the Topic title for your new posting.

Highlight the title and copy it.

 

2. Then, click on “Forum”.

Scroll down to the main Forum you want to post in. In this case it is “British Commercial Vehicles”. Click on the link.

Near the top of the page, just under the British Commercial Vehicles title is a link, New topic.

Click on New topic.

Click in the “Subject” box and paste the new topic into it.

You must put something into the “Body” of the posting in order for this new topic to appear in the list.

I trust this information will help you out.

Dave

Note: The reason for the Topic List is so that the topics will be sorted properly.

 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Online
DTCA MemberFrance

Bruce,

Above you mention three different posts for the code 3 models :

 

"However, you do have a number of choices where your Post can go:

DTCA MEMBER INFORMATION AND DINKY TOYS PREFERENCES Forum 

and then DINKY RESTORATION thread

GENERAL INFORMATION AND POSTS Forum

and then RESTORERS

DINKY TOYS TECHNICAL DISCUSSIONS Forum

and then RESTORING DINKY TOYS Thread"

I do not know what is in these but I suppose that the subject is the same and that one thread would be enough for the restoration techniques and an other one called "Code 3 models" could contain posts such as Kevin's above.

If the post can not be moved, Kevin can write it again or copy it in one of the three threads mentioned above and then dellite his post in the Morris van thread by using the edit button.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK

A couple of images of the Capstan Cigarettes Morris Van.

Dave

 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Online
DTCA MemberFrance

Is a sat-nav device available to use this site ?

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hello all, I will no doubt have been sleeping all the time, but I suddenly realize that the header name of this topic is quite different from any name variant Meccano may ever have used when referring to  this model. Just an observation. Kind regards, Jan 

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member

Jan

Have just read your Post above. I have made a comment relevant to some of the names that are listed in the pdf file.  You can read it under the 651 Centurion Tank topic, or as it is currently referred to as the 651 Centurion "Main Battle" Tank topic.

In essence, this is what I wrote:

"I can list countless titles that obviously reflect a collective whim at the time rather than following explicitly the terminology used by Meccano. If need be, the title could have the model's correct designation in brackets in a similar manner to that used by Jacques for another model, although I would prefer to simply leave the title exactly as Meccano had "decreed" it to be."

I have noticed the title of this Topic since it was created, but refrained from writing anything in case I was the only one who queried it. Nice to read your observations though.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

20160405/870/1445

 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Online
DTCA MemberFrance

There is at least one Capstan van fitted with the baseplate from the mail van. The photo provided was so loosy that I trashed it. So I am looking for an at least decent photo of the baseplate of such a van.