User login

New Comments

New arrivals

22 hours 47 min ago

New arrivals

1 day 6 hours ago

--25p and 251 Aveling Barford Road Roller (1948-63)

1 day 17 hours ago

--25p and 251 Aveling Barford Road Roller (1948-63)

3 days 23 hours ago

Interesting Combinations

5 days 43 min ago

Interesting Combinations

5 days 1 hour ago

Interesting Combinations

5 days 7 hours ago

-686 25 pounder Field Gun (1957-71)

1 week 1 day ago

-275 Brink's Armoured Car (1964-1970 / 1979-1980)

1 week 2 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 3 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 3 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 3 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 5 days ago

New arrivals

1 week 6 days ago

Dinky Exhibitions

2 weeks 20 hours ago

-692 5.5" Medium Gun (1955-62)

2 weeks 20 hours ago

Dinky Exhibitions

2 weeks 20 hours ago

Dinky Exhibitions

2 weeks 20 hours ago

Dinky Exhibitions

2 weeks 20 hours ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 23 hours ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 1 day ago

New arrivals

2 weeks 1 day ago

John Beugels

2 weeks 6 days ago

John Beugels

3 weeks 16 hours ago

New arrivals

3 weeks 1 day ago

--60g DH 'Comet' Aeroplane, Light Racer (1934-1941)

3 weeks 1 day ago

-686 25 pounder Field Gun (1957-71)

3 weeks 2 days ago

John Beugels

3 weeks 2 days ago

--24v and 538 Buick Roadmaster (1954-1960)

3 weeks 2 days ago

--24v and 538 Buick Roadmaster (1954-1960)

3 weeks 2 days ago

--24v and 538 Buick Roadmaster (1954-1960)

3 weeks 2 days ago

--24v and 538 Buick Roadmaster (1954-1960)

3 weeks 2 days ago

-686 25 pounder Field Gun (1957-71)

3 weeks 2 days ago

John Beugels

3 weeks 2 days ago

John Beugels

3 weeks 3 days ago

Visitors

  • Total Visitors: 1627710
  • Registered Users: 221
  • Published Nodes: 1439
  • Since: 09/13/2019 - 12:18
15 posts / 0 new
Last post
goldenp's picture
goldenp
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Thu, 01/01/1970 - 01:00
Guy Vixen or Guy Otter

I note that many authors refer to the Guy 4-Ton Truck as released by Dinky Toys in 1947 as the Guy Otter. The Richardsons refer to the chassis as the Guy Vixen.

In my research for the recent Guy Warrior article I came across the following:

The Vixen Chassis was a 4-ton Chassis introduced in 1947, the same year as the launch of the Dinky Supertoys Guy.

The Otter was a 6-ton chassis and was launched in 1948.

The original Dinky Drawing referes to the model as a 4-Ton Truck.

It seems fairly clear to me that the correct basis for the Dinky Guy was the Vixen and not the Otter.

So where does the confusion come from? Any thoughts?

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 22:49

Peter,

Thank you for this piece of information, I was aware that the two names were used but I never went into researching which was the correct one.

goldenp's picture
goldenp
Offline
DTCA Member
Joined: Thu, 01/01/1970 - 01:00

Looking at the books, it seems Cecil Gibson is responsible for the Guy Otter error. The Rchardsons always called it the Vixen.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK
Joined: Sat, 01/24/2015 - 18:39

Here is the front cover from an original Guy Vixen Leaflet from Guy Moyors Ltd, Wolverhampton, England.

I will be doing a more comprehensive article on this in the October DTCA Journal

Dave B

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 22:49

There are three similar trucks :
• Vixen 4 ton 1947
• Otter 6 ton 1948
• big Otter 7 ton 1954
The only differences between these trucks are probably :
• engine power
• gear ratios
• number of leafs in the springs
all of these are not reproduced in the Dinky Toys but as Meccano called their truck "Guy 4 ton lorry" it is the Vixen.

Also the casting drawing was made in 1946 some months before the real 4 tonner Vixen truck has been launched and two years before the 6 ton Otter.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member
Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38

Here's a reply to an old Thread!

Jacques, and of course dear late Peter, you have brought something to light that I had not realised before.
Jacques, you wrote "Also the casting drawing was made in 1946 some months before the real 4 tonner Vixen truck has been launched and two years before the 6 ton Otter"
This then would appear as if Meccano had been granted access to the technical drawings for the Vixen by the Guy Motor Co, before the actual vehicle was released in a similar fashion when Meccano was granted access by Standard Triumph in Coventry to the design and specifications for the Herald and Triumph 2000?
Would I be correct in that assumption?
Bruce

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK
Joined: Sat, 01/24/2015 - 18:39

Here is an original Guy Indian mascot which I acquired some years ago.

It was screwed to the top of the water filler cap on top of the radiator. It is cast iron and very heavy.

I believe these may originally have been painted but have no absolute proof of this.

Dave

janwerner's picture
janwerner
Offline
DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 06:56

Here is one that I photographed in September 2004 in Norwich. It is part of a radiator of a Guy double decker. Very decorative and hard to imagine such dedication to decorative detail on commercial vehicles nowadays.

Apparently the unpainted state seems to be common.

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
Offline
DTCA MemberUSA
Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 05:27

Jan--Very nice photo of that mascot cap. That one appears to be a lot shinier then the one Dave showed.....looks like it has been polished. I really enjoy seeing those old mascot caps. In the U.S., Mack Trucks used to have a Bulldog cap, which was also very distinctive. The good old days!!
Terry

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
Offline
DTCA MemberUK
Joined: Sat, 01/24/2015 - 18:39

I suspect the one that Jan saw on the bus has been Chromium Plated to improve its appearance!!

I cannot see Guy Motors going to that expense in the 1940s when it was a period of extreme austerity - I can still remember going to the sweet shop with my ration book!!!

Dave

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 22:49

I have seen those been cast at at the Amberley Working Museum on October 14, 2007. On the same day, I met the chaps from Thomas Keating who had made the tools for the Coles mobile crane and the Aston Martin DB3.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member
Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38

Gentlemen

We seem to have become sidetracked with radiator caps! (Not that I did not find these discussions interesting!)
But, I would still appreciate some discussion on the assumption I made in my post submitted on 25 August, whether Meccano was granted access to the Guy Vixen technical drawings at least a year before the prototype was released in the same manner as the much later Triumph Herald for instance. Were there any other close associations with vehicle manufacturers that also resulted in new Dinky models being issued at about the same time or a little later when the real vehicle went on sale?

Bruce

Dinkinius wrote:
"Here's a reply to an old Thread!

Jacques, and of course dear late Peter, you have brought something to light that I had not realised before.
Jacques, you wrote "Also the casting drawing was made in 1946 some months before the real 4 tonner Vixen truck has been launched and two years before the 6 ton Otter"
This then would appear as if Meccano had been granted access to the technical drawings for the Vixen by the Guy Motor Co, before the actual vehicle was released in a similar fashion when Meccano was granted access by Standard Triumph in Coventry to the design and specifications for the Herald and Triumph 2000?
Would I be correct in that assumption?
Bruce"

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 22:49

Meccano s.a. had similar agrements at least with Peugeot and Renault as stated on these boxes.

From top to bottom : 510 Peugeot 204, 518 Renault 4L, 517 Renault 8.

and there must be some more.

The statement translates into :

For Peugeot:

By authorisation of Automobiles Peugeot, this Dinky Toy has been issued at the same time as the real car.

Note the mistake, Dinky Toy is written without an S. As this is a registered trade marque, there should always be an S.

For Renault:
By special authorisation from Renault, this Dinky Toys has been issued at the same time as the real car.

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
Offline
AustraliaDTCA Member
Joined: Tue, 07/07/2015 - 04:38

Jacques

Were the above models launched at the same time as the real vehicle, or was Meccano provided with appropriate drawings after the real car went on sale?

Bruce

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
Offline
DTCA MemberFrance
Joined: Fri, 06/26/2015 - 22:49

All three Dinkys were launched on the same day as the real cars. Meccano has been provided with the body drawings early enough to tool and produce by the launching date.

The title is : "It is launched at the same time as the real one?"

The top box is interesting as in the frame DINKY TOY is writen without an S and in the large red printing, TOYS is printed smaller than DINKY. This is because in 1971 the marque DINKY TOYS was droped and the name DINKY® was registered. Dinky Supertoys had gone in 1965.