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Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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--27d and 340 Land-Rover (1950-71)

The following is a copy of a Post submitted by Jan that appears in the 153a-672 Jeep Topic. An explanation for this Post appearing here follows Jan’s Post.

Tue, 04/25/2017 - 03:17

#10

janwerner

Re : -153a and 672 Jeep (1946-55)

Hello gentlemen, when I observed Jan Oldenhuis' first type Jeep, with its washers behind the hubs, it wasn't the phenomenon as such, but the occurrence on this Jeep, which surprised me. Many - if not all - 27d/340 Land Rovers are also equipped with these little rings behind the wheels. I'm not aware of any other contemporary models with the same washers. I understand that they may reduce some friction or rubbing over there, but I don't know why the adoption of this was limited to this model only. Kind regards, Jan W.

With the above that appeared in the 153-672 Jeep (1946-1955) Topic brought to light something I had not known previously, and I could not check my original model as that one disappeared while I was away overseas decades ago. I am including Jan’s Post as it is relevant to the Land-Rover and does have a place in this Topic.

The interesting thing is that these washers are quite unique, or at least that is my understanding, not only with the Land-Rover but especially for the earlier Jeep. One then wonders why Phil Sylvester in his article on the 27d/340 Land-Rover that appeared in the April 2014 issue of MODEL COLLECTOR magazine, pages 64 - 67, did not mention this, although we should ignore that Phil omitted including a dash between Land and Rover throughout his excellent article! So too, the follow-up article in the July 2014 issue of MODEL COLLECTOR pages 70 – 73 written by Jacques (Our Jacques) Dujardin made no mention of the washers either especially with Jacque’s article concentrating on casting changes. (Yes I know these washers are not casting changes, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned this specifically before.)  It is strongely suggested that the above articles be read as they are jammed with fascinating information on the Dinky Toys 27d/340 Land-Rover. Let me know if any have a problem locating the articles as I will be able to assist.

With my original Land-Rover being absent, I bought a replacement.  Photographs of this model are below, and it is interesting how someone on the assembly floor made a blunder with the positioning of the washer for the off-side front wheel.

But as can be seen, she (I have yet to see a male in any other department involved in the assembling, checking and boxing of toys except in the foundry and of course, administration), was able to jam the washer into the available space, no doubt while chatting with her neighbours on the floor at the same time!

Several images of my replacement Land-Rover are included below. Wish I still had my original model, warts and all, even though it came without a box!

In closing, has any other Dinky Toys (apart from the 153a) or Dinky Supertoy received these little washers?

Bruce H.   (150)

20170405/1089/1257

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Greetings all

A quick check through that well-known website, eBay, reveals the answer to a question I neglected to ask in my first Post, "were all 340 Land-Rovers fitted with these washers?". Apparently when the model received its plastic hubs, the washers were dispensed, as shown with the images below.

This then leads us to the next question, "Were early issues with plastic hubs still fitted with washers?"

Bruce H.   (150)

20170405/1090/1420

janwerner's picture
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Thanks, Bruce, another step forward in information about this model. I checked the talkmodeltoys forum, and it appears that I mentioned this phenomenon in February 2006 already. Jacques replied with some very useful comments and views, but in my opinion no one succeeded in explaining yet why only THIS (and now we know also some early 153a Jeeps) Land-Rover was fitted with these rings and why this rubbing and friction was not seen as a problem on other Dinky Toys. Kind regards, Jan 

http://www.talkmodeltoys.com/discus/messages/27668/1896.html?1181808445

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Many thanks Jan for your thoughtful comments. Also for including the link to the talkmodeltoys forum.  That forum had one last comment that makes some sense as to the reason washers were fitted to the 340 Land-Rover:

Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 08:07 am:   

Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


P.S  The washers to wheels are present on cast wheel versions and absent for the plastic. If they are removed the tyres rub on the casting. 

The tyres rubbing on the casting may have been the reason the 405 Universal Jeep was not shod with similar tyres as the Land-Rover.

When one compares both types of tyres, the possible reason is more obvious:

The section width of both tyres makes a difference combined with the type of diecast hub fitted. One can see with the last two photographs - the hubs can be seen on the Universal Jeep, but are hidden by the thickness of the tyre with the Land-Rover.  On the other hand, the plastic hubs were designed differently with a different style of tyre being used which tended to have straighter walls.  And I was thinking it was the hubs that caused the problem!

But this does not explain why the washers were used for some of the 153a Jeeps.

Just a thought.

Kind regards

Bruce H.   (150)

20170405/1091/1923

dinkycollect's picture
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Hello all,

While I am trying to list all the variations of the Land Rover, at least 15 so far, I have found some posts about the spacing washers found between the wheels and the casting. As far as I know, three Dinky Toys have been fitted with these spacers : the Land Rover, the Jeep 153a and the 571/971 Coles modile crane (See Jan's Werner post http://dtcawebsite.com/node/1035). These washers were obviously spacers to stop the tyres from rubing on the castings. The 25 series Bedford trucks may also have been fitted with these washers but the die has been modified so that rubing of the tyres did not occur any more.

The Land Rover had these spacers from the very begining until the ridged hubs were replaced by the plastic hubs. Il was technically not possible to include the spacers into the die as it had been done for the Bedford trucks, if so the casting could not have been ejected from the die.

There were at least two different dies for this model. The earliest one had ejectors marks inside the rear wings, on the next one the ejector marks were on each side of the towing hook.

The driver was mainly riveted wih a cross punch but for a short while this riveting was spun as shown by Jan's W picture above. By the way, Jan could you please make me a large picture of the underside of this Land Rover ?

I am also looking for some pictures of the underside of all the variations of the second casting type, there are at least three but maybe more.

QUESTION : How was the hole for the sparewheel drilled ?

Do not think too much about this, enjoy your new year's eve and have a happy new year.

Jacques

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janwerner
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Dear Jacques, I will take some pictures as soon as I have a little moment for that and the available daylight is sufficient. 

Have a nice New Year's Eve (all of you)! Kind regards, Jan 

kasvd
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To add to this thread i include some pictures of my Land Rover family.

Indeed only spacers on the ones with diecast hubs.

Unfortunately the brown one is missing some bumper parts.

There are a lot of differences to be found.

Most of them are mentioned in above posts.

I particularly like the inbetween orange version with blue driver and plastic hubs, but open bumper and diecast steering wheel.

It also has a different underside around the towhook compared to the others.

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
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This British icon deserves indeed to delve into it a little more. Both the real and the Dinky Toys model have indeed developed many interesting casting and colour variations in the course of production timeline and is very interesting to investigate and bring to light as most as possible.

The first prototypes of the Land-Rover (note the hyphen in the early days) had a central driving position (centre steering as a tractor). The layout reduced the need for separate tooling and production for left- and right-hand drive.

Wikipedia:

The Land Rover is, after the American Willys Jeep, the oldest off-road vehicle brand in the world. The car takes its name from the expectation that it would be used a lot on land. The first brochure that was published even before the car was in production was entitled The Land Rover for the farmer, the countryman and general industrial use.

Pre-produced 1948 Land Rover brochure

The Land Rover was designed to only be in production for two or three years to gain some cash flow and export orders for the Rover Company so it could restart up-market car production. Once car production restarted, however, it was greatly outsold by the off-road Land Rover, which developed into its own brand that remains successful today. Many of the defining and successful features of the Land Rover design were in fact the result of Rover's drive to simplify the tooling required for the vehicle and to use the minimum amount of rationed materials. As well as the aluminium alloy bodywork (which has been retained throughout production despite it now being more expensive than a conventional steel body due to its ideal properties of light weight and corrosion resistance) other examples include the distinctive flat body panels with only simple, constant-radius curves (originally used because they could be cut and formed by hand from aluminium sheet on a basic jig) and the sturdy box-section ladder chassis, which on series vehicles was made up from four strips of steel welded at each side to form a box, thus cutting down on the complex operations required when making a more conventional U- or I-section frame.

The production Land-Rover makes its public debut at the Amsterdam motor show (nowadays AutoRAI) on April 30th, 1948. Note the left-hand drive. (Photo by courtesy of the Telegraph)

Celebration Land Rover 1948 with registration number HUE166 as 1st of its kind.

A 1948 Land Rover Series I. This car, with registration number HUE 166, was the first pre-production Land Rover showed at the Amsterdam motor show April 30th 1948. It is now kept at the British Motor Museum, Gaydon, UK.

The green colour question: [Autoweek 16-8-2007: (Dutch translated to English)]

The prototypes of the off-road vehicle that the Rover factories built shortly after the Second World War were all pale green in colour. Why? The paint for Spitfire cockpits was the only one available. And steel was already scarce, so Rover used the aluminium of British fighter planes that had remained for the bodywork.

Until today, the Land Rover Defender is made of aluminium and the sheet metal is riveted to each other and to the chassis. And to this day, it is used by farmers, outsiders and armies all over the world. Without peering or blushing, he plows through the mud of the deepest war zone or brings adventurers to remote places: this means of transport has an indestructible reputation. The proven engines, fantastic transmission and the thoroughly welded chassis have since been built on the same reliable tradition. It is up to this model that "Land Rover" is included worldwide as a generic name in dictionaries and lexicons. The series 1 was built between 1948 and 1958 (the introduction took place at the AutoRAI); the Series 2 between 1958 and 1971 and the Series 3 between 1971 and 1985. The designations 80, 88, 90, 109, 110 and 130 refer to the wheelbase in inches. There are four and six-cylinder diesel and gasoline. Only in 1980 was the well-known Rover 3.5 liter V8 mounted for the first time in the Land Rover. Reportedly, three-quarters of the built Land Rovers of this type are still in use.

A nostalgic photograph of a Land Rover distributor in Cardiff.

1948 brochure

1948 brochure: Land Rover with the power take-off gear box and wide belt pulley at the rear driving a circular saw.

1948 brochure: Land Rover rear power take-off with pulley unit.

Land Rover rear side with power take-off pulley unit. An exact copy of the real one.

Introduction 27d in Meccano Magazine April 1950

Meccano products price list April 1950 with 27d

1948 Land Rover cutaway drawing

Land Rover with fuel tank on the right side under the driver’s seat.

The introduction of the Land Rover in MM July 1950 stated: [….The driver is provided with a bucket seat in the front compartment of the vehicle, with a tool box on the left….Further interesting features of the model are the indications of its side doors and of the 10-gallon petrol tank below that on the offside……]

Strange to make a tool box on the left of the front compartment without a seat on it as on the right side with the driver's seat and it seems to me a dangerous position of the downward petrol tank straight under the driver’s seat for in uneven terrain, but all early ones are equipped with it given the picture of the Land Rover car transporter below. The pictures of the pre-production 1948 brochures don’t show these petrol tank on the right side, but the cutaway drawing above shows clearly the petrol tank under the driver’s seat and the tool box on the left.

The first batch of export vehicles aboard a superb, Rover branded transporter, 1949. The Austin car transporter, looks like the 582 Bedford Pullmore Car Transporter. (Photo by courtesy of the Telegraph)

Some colour images from the various catalogues:

1953 catalogue: Silver trim front bumper, headlights and below the radiator by mask spraying. Note: the vertical strengthening of the three pillars of the windscreen is clearly visible.

1957 catalogue: Silver trim front bumper and headlights. Below the radiator no longer silver trim, but orange as the body colour.

1966 catalogue: Blue plastic driver now.

I show some pictures of my 2 Land Rovers with matching trailer. Both are early versions with silver trim on the front bumper, head lights and under the radiator by mask spraying. The later ones are missing the silver trim under the radiator and has the body colour.

The green one is the first version with a flat windscreen without vertical strengthening of the 3 pillars of the windscreen and has a rounded rivet for fastening of the driver’s body. The orange one is a later one and has the strengthening in the windscreen as is clearly visible in picture 2 below. The orange trailer bears the number 341, the green one is an earlier one and bears no number in the base.

Phil Silvester wrote an interesting article about the Land Rover in Model Collector April 2014.

On the internet you can find a very interesting blog in 2 parts with the original Meccano drawings of the Land Rover in part 1: http://dinkyphil-en.over-blog.com/2018/03/dinky-toys-27d/340-land-rover-part-1.html and all casting variations in part 2: http://dinkyphil-en.over-blog.com/2018/03/dinky-toys-27d/340-land-rover-part-2.html

Jan Oldenhuis, 13 January 2020

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Two green examples here with two ways of rivetting the driver. (By the way, Jacques, I hope this picture from below with both of them serves your purpose).

It is only now that I became aware of the masking differences for the front bumper: the one on the left also having a silver licence plate and bumper connections, these wanting on the right hand model. 

The one with the blue interior on the photo far down below came from an early trade box. Kind regards, Jan 

Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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Jan, the orange one with blue interior is beautiful and hard to find in this condition. I hope you also noticed the difference in the windshields of those two. The green/tan one has vertical strengthening in the windshield, while the orange/blue one does not have that.

Recently I acquired a mid green-tan 340 341 Land Rover with Trailer combination, both with a dual-numbered box with a green color spot as companions of the dual numbered boxes with orange-green Land Rover with trailer 340 341. These green colour spot dual numbered boxes are not yet shown in this topic.

I take this opportunity to demonstrate that the driver of the Massey Harris tractor also (already) had this difference of driver fastening.

Kind Regards. Jan O

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janwerner
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Hi Jan, thank you for pointing out that difference of the wind shields. Paradoxically it is exactly that example with the strengthening of the centre bar which shows a slight bend over there. 

The orange/blue and green/tan models that came with the trade box are without that strengthening indeed. As your dual numbered box contains a model with that strengthening, the ones without will date from before 1954 anyway. Still, even the couple with my trade box is not consistent. The driver of the green one has only the face picked out, whereas the driver of the orange one has the earlier wider touch of flesh colour around the head. I presume the rather poor green one has just been added one time and the considerably better preserved orange one has most probably always belonged to this trade box. So, I will probably sell the green one some time without any qualms of conscience - keeping the fine orange/blue one and its very good box. I will possibly only add models to this box if they are in full consistence with it. Kind regards, Jan 

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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                                              This is a third type of tradebox for the 27D

                                              Land Rover, it has the double numbering

                                              and the reference number 50 032 has gone.