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Jan Oldenhuis's picture
Jan Oldenhuis
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DTCA MemberNetherlands
Joined: Thu, 07/30/2015 - 16:47
-First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

I'm very interested in the publication and production of the first Dinky Toys after the war. Meccano Magazine, the ultimate gazette of Meccano Ltd., announced in October 1945 that the plant was still on "war production". In November 1945 it was announced that the production of "familiar products" could be resumed  and in December 1945 a limited supply of the smaller Meccano Outfits and a first instalment of Dinky Toys will be ready during December.

In April 1946 MM announced the introduction of the first two new DT models: Lagonda Sports Coupe. No. 38c and Jeep. No. 153a. Until January 1947 it was extended by a further six new models: "Viking" Air Liner. No. 70c; "Meteor" Twin Jet Fighter. No. 70e; "Tempest" II Fighter. No. 70b; Avro "York" Air Liner. No.70a; Jaguar Sports Car. No. 38f and Armstrong Siddeley Coupé. No. 38e. In MM of January 1947, these eight new models were presented as "Now available!".

According to Mike and Sue Richardson was the first known post-war Dinky Toys catalogue a Canadian, dated November 1945 with ref.no. 16/1145/20. I don't know if there were already new models in this catalogue, because I've never seen this catalogue. Given the print code I suspect not, but maybe there are members who have this catalogue and are willing to add an image of this catalogue.

According to Ramsay, however, there was also a simultaneous UK Meccano leaflet ref. no. 16/1145/75 list the models to be reintroduced after the War and features pictures of 23e Speed of the Wind racing car, Double Decker bus 29c, 39a Packard Super 8 Touring car, 62s Hawker Hurricane Fighter and 62p Armstrong Whitworth Air Liner. Sepia print on cream paper. These are all pre-war models who were reintroduced. We must keep in mind that it was customary for Meccano Ltd, that already before the war, Dinky Toys were included in the general Meccano product catalogues. That is sometimes forgotten. The first double-sided Meccano product leaflet after the war with Dinky Toys that I have is from May 1946 ref.no. 16/546/30, but according Vectis there is also a double-sided leaflet with Meccano Dinky Toys from March 1946 ref. no. 16/346/25. I have not yet seen this one. The popular Jeep 153a is mentioned, but is not earlier displayed in the Meccano leaflet than March 1947. I add pictures of the Meccano leaflets with new DT models that I have. I hope that others can add pictures of the missing leaflets.

Jan Oldenhuis (703)

Rotterdam-Hoogvliet

The Netherlands


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Dinkinius
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Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 22:38

Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Hello Jan O.,

I am sorry it has taken me over a year to respond to your Post!frown  A case of not thinking that I had anything to contribute to it!

When you wrote The first double-sided Meccano product leaflet after the war with Dinky Toys that I have is from May 1946 ref.no. 16/546/30, but according Vectis there is also a double-sided leaflet with Meccano Dinky Toys from March 1946 ref. no. 16/346/25. I have not yet seen this one. The popular Jeep 153a is mentioned, but is not earlier displayed in the Meccano leaflet than March 1947. I add pictures of the Meccano leaflets with new DT models that I have” I was blissfully ignorant that filed in my Meccano leaflet binder was the leaflet to which you referred!  I am not certain when or how I obtained my copy, suffice to say it was not in the lot when the same leaflet was auctioned by Vectis on 21 February 2013.

This leaflet was issued a month before buyers became aware of the new releases that were publicised in the April 1946 issue of Meccano Magazine, the 38c Lagonda and 153a Jeep, and as can be seen with the image below, pictures of these two models are included in this leaflet as too the 29c Double Deck Bus and 23e “Speed of the Wind” Record Car, 62a Hurricane and 62p Armstrong-Whitworth Air Liner.

Kind regards

Bruce H.   (150)

20170206/1117/0025


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Jan Oldenhuis
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Joined: Thu, 07/30/2015 - 16:47

Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Bruce-thank you very much for your response.

Some older topics of my appeared in the New Posts & Pages list after I modified the model number of the subject according the rules. I hope no members are angry that their topic disappeared down. I will not change anything anymore.

You have done a great find with this meccano price list of March 1946. I'm looking for it, but they are rarely offered for sale. From May 1946 to 1969 I have them almost complete. After that I have most order forms till April 1980, but I'm also looking for 2 of 1945, the very first after the war.

I love these Meccano Toys of Quality products price leaflets very much because they are illustrated with images. These illustrated Meccano products price leaflets were issued with images until February 1952. Thereafter, the price lists appeared with 2 boys faces until 1954. After 1954 drawings of a Meccano bridge with 2 boys were added. I add some types of these leaflets.

Kind regards,

Jan Oldenhuis 1-6-2017


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janwerner
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Joined: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 00:56

Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Hello Bruce, this is fascinating evidence that both the post-war issued Lagonda and the Jeep appear to have been available at least one month earlier than we were aware of up till now. Thanks for sharing this unveiling document with us! Kind regards, Jan 


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Jan Oldenhuis
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Joined: Thu, 07/30/2015 - 16:47

Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Visually speaking, we are talking about these first 2 cars after the war of which I add pictures here of mine.

I will also add a picture of my DT 38f Jaguar Sports Car. This was also one of the first cars after the war mentioned in MM of November 1946. Mine is the export version.

Meccano Magazine UK November 1946 with 38f Jaguar Sports Car.

Kind regards,

2-6-2017 Jan Oldenhuis


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Dinkinius
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Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Jan Oldenhuis 1-6-2017 wrote on Thu, 06/01/2017 - 15:30:

Bruce - thank you very much for your response.

Some older topics of my appeared in the New Posts & Pages list after I modified the model number of the subject according the rules. I hope no members are angry that their topic disappeared down. I will not change anything anymore.

You have done a great find with this meccano price list of March 1946. I'm looking for it, but they are rarely offered for sale. From May 1946 to 1969 I have them almost complete. After that I have most order forms till April 1980, but I'm also looking for 2 of 1945, the very first after the war.

I love these Meccano Toys of Quality products price leaflets very much because they are illustrated with images. These illustrated Meccano products price leaflets were issued with images until February 1952. Thereafter, the price lists appeared with 2 children's faces until 1954. After 1954 drawings of a Meccano bridge with 2 children were added. I add some types of these leaflets.

Jan O.,

It is apparent that we both share the same interest as I really like these old Meccano leaflets especially those with many illustrations that ended in the early 1950s. I do not have a complete set, as the last issue I have of the early type of illustrated price lists is October 1951. The first example I have of the price leaflets with the two boys in either top corner is dated 1 July 1953. However, these frequently issued price leaflets certainly assist in dating Dinky Toys whose boxes have a price written on them. The annual catalogues are of an insufficient frequency for the inclusion of the occasional price changes.

I am quite certain that no collector is angry with you for having changed the model number in some of your older Posts, judging by the frequent lack of acknowledgement made on some of my posts and those from other members as well.

One of the main problems with this site is when a Post is prepared in reply to a previous Post, in other words, the “reply” tab is selected, the reply Post appears immediately after the Post to which the reply refers. This in effect has the reply buried within the body of the Topic. Unlike the old website, when a reply is made, the text of the Post to which one is replying appears at the start of one’s new Post, with the new text immediately following. I hope this makes sense! An example is my Post dated 20172005/1103/0302 in the NEW ARRIVALS topic did not receive a single Post in reply which on its content should have had some response, no doubt due to it having been inserted by the system immediately after the Post to which it refers.

 I am now replying to your Post #3 using the methodology of the old website as can be seen above.

The price list dated 1st April 1954 print code 16/354/50 there is no drawing, but the price list for 1st May 1954 returns with the two boys, which was the last Meccano Toys of Quality price list I have with the drawing of the boys on both upper sides of the front of the leaflet with its print code being 16/454/50. The price list coded 16/954/50 again has no drawings. The next price list I have with an illustration is dated February 1955 print code of 16/155/12 which shows a drawing of two boys playing with a Meccano lifting bridge. The drawing had its first appearance in the March 1946 price list although this drawing had three boys present, which from January 1955, loses one boy, the one sitting behind the Meccano model.

The illustrated price leaflet with the two boys playing with their Meccano Set continued until the September 1957 leaflet which had no illustrations. For October 1957, print code 16/1057/100 the drawing returns with the two boys with the Meccano lifting bridge. Then the Price List for 1st February 1958 a new drawing appears, containing drawings of a Meccano helicopter, Hornby Dublo locomotive and tender and a Dinky Toys 172 Studebaker Land Cruiser. The same Price List with drawing was also used for the Australian market, and from then on, the drawing seems to have lost favour. The print code is 16/158/100.

I am including copies of those Meccano Toys of Quality price leaflets mentioned in bold above.

The last Meccano Toys of Quality price list in my collection was issued for May 1977 which is a shadow of its former self.

You mentioned having most of the order forms till April 1980. Are these the Dealer Order Forms?

Thank you for having created this Topic!

Kind regards

Bruce H.

20170306/1119/1357


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Jan Oldenhuis
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Joined: Thu, 07/30/2015 - 16:47

Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Bruce, you have made a very nice addition of the various illustrations in the Meccano Toys of Quality price lists through the years. Thank you very much for that.

The drawing of the Meccano lift bridge in your Meccano price list of March 1946 (post # 2) with those 3 boys is also very nice. In my added following Meccano price list of May 1946 (16/546/30), on the top of the page, there is also a drawing of this Meccano lift bridge with 3 boys top right, but also on the top left another drawing of a railway crane with 2 boys. These drawings repeated in the Meccano price list of November 1946 and March 1947 (See post #1)

I am also very pleased with your scan of the February 1955 Meccano price list export / sterling. This is exactly the same price list as I have, but then with UK ref. 16/155/100. I will add a scan. When comparing these 2 price lists, you can clearly see the price differences between the UK January 1955 and the export / sterling of January 1955 price list.

At the export / sterling list, the price list at the top indicates in red: Prices do not include transport or insurance. Bruce, can you explain what exactly this means if you would buy a Dinky Toys in Australia in that time. How is the sales price then calculated? Is there also a separate Meccano price list for Australia of January 1955? Your country do also have Dinky Toys catalogues specific for Australia. is't it?

Another additional comment about this: In February 1952, in addition to the frequently appearing Meccano Toys of Quelity price lists, the first post-war bound Meccano catalogue in small pocket format appeared, also contents Dinky Toys. Beautiful catalogues with very nice covers. These small catalogues appeared until 1955. Then from 1956 until 1958 a larger format Meccano catalogue appeared. I'm adding the small February 1952 UK Meccano catalogue with Dinky Toys in it.

My last Meccano Toys of Quality price list is from 18/6/1979. My 1st Meccano order form is February 1973 and my last order form is from April 1980 Airfix Products Ltd. The last orderform of Meccano Ltd Binns Road Liverpool I have is dated 21 January 1980. See attached scans.

Kind regards,

Jan Oldenhuis 4-6-2017


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Dinkinius
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Joined: Mon, 07/06/2015 - 22:38

Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Hello Jan

The ten years after 1946 was a most fascinating era of Meccano Toys of Quality catalogues, and the more frequent price lists.

Commencing with October 1949, Meccano re-introduced an identical size full-products catalogue that was last issued in 1939.

This is the 1939 Toys of Quality from Meccano Land, printed in June 1939

Then in 1949, a similar large size MECCANO TOYS OF QUALITY catalogue was issued, the earliest one I have is Print Code 13/1049/150. The catalogue below for the Australian market has the print code of 13/550/68.

Then in February 1952, a new pocket-size MECCANO TOYS OF QUALITY catalogue was issued, print number 16/152/50

Two months later, Meccano issued the next edition of their World Famous Toys catalogue print number 16/452/50

Then in September 1952, a further edition was published, Print Number 16/852/500

1st February 1953 saw the next edition with revised prices for the Meccano Toys of Quality, print number 16/153/50

The next Toys of Quality catalogue I have is dated 1st October 1953, with a print number of 13/953/678.  There apparently was a catalogue issued in April 1953, 16/453/50 but I do not have a copy.

Meccano was really keeping their printer busy, as the next month, October 1953, a catalogue was prepared for Canada with a print number of 13/1053/90

Meccano was also busy with the printing of a new catalogue for the home market, with it having a print number of 13/1053/350., so it may have been intended for release during September, or October 1953

Having a newly designed cover, is the Meccano Toys of Quality catalogue for 1st October 1953, with a print number of 13/953/678

Things within Meccano must have been slightly confusing during September and October 1953, as a revamped catalogue with new artwork for the cover, was also issued on 1st October 1953 with a print number of 13/953/25, this one for Australia with a similar catalogue for New Zealand with a print number of 13/953/50, more copiesd being printed than that for Australia!

Of course, there was also a need for the home market to have access to this catalogue, so a print run was also conducted, with its print number being 13/1053/350, with this catalogue being the 2nd printing. Obviously sales were "hotting" up and interest in Meccano products was at its height. 

A Revised Prices for 1 April 1954 was issued using surplus copes of the October 1953 catalogue with a separate price list inserted.

Australia received a new catalogue in 1954 with a print code of 13/654/50

At the same time when the Australian catalogue was being printed, 350,000 were being printed for the home market in the UK.  It also beares the print code of 13/654/995 - note the number of copies now being printed, 995,000!

The next edition came out in June 1955. For the Australian  market, its print number was 13/655/50

The same catalogue was printed for the United Kingdom market, its print number being 13/655/797 - a decrease of 198,000 copies from the June 1954 edition. A downturn in the economy or were there too many ordered the year before?

With the catalogue for 1956, Meccano returned to the pre-war and early post-war size. This catalogue has the print number of 13/756/50 and for the first time, it is in full colour throughout.

The 1957 Catalogue has the print number of 13/757/500, again in full colour.

It was also the last time a separate, illustrated catalogue was issued for all the Meccano Products.  The Dinky Toys catalogues continued as too the Hornby Dublo catalogues being issued on a regular basis, although as can be seen with the above in the early 1950s, not with the same degree of frequency.

Kind regards

Bruce H.   (150)

20170606/1120/1728

 


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Dinkinius
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Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Jan O.,

In my haste to add the covers of the Meccano Toys of Quality catalogues from 1952 to 1957, I neglected to reply in detail to your last Post #7

When you wrote:

“I am also very pleased with your scan of the February 1955 Meccano price list export / sterling. This is exactly the same price list as I have, but then with UK ref. 16/155/100. I will add a scan. When comparing these 2 price lists, you can clearly see the price differences between the UK January 1955 and the export / sterling of January 1955 price list.”

Jan, when you wrote the above, I have absolutely no idea what or for whom the export/sterling price list is intended and whether these prices are wholesale or retail. Unless, it was for those British Commonwealth colonies that had not as yet received their independence and who still used British Sterling as their monetary unit until they gained their independence.  These would have included Cyprus, Dominica, Fiji, Nauru, Nigeria, Solomon Islands, most if not all the countries in the Caribbean, Singapore, Malaya, etc.

And the following:

“At the export / sterling list, the price list at the top indicates in red: Prices do not include transport or insurance. Bruce, can you explain what exactly this means if you would buy a Dinky Toys in Australia in that time. How is the sales price then calculated? Is there also a separate Meccano price list for Australia of January 1955? Your country do also have Dinky Toys catalogues specific for Australia, isn’t it?”

Assuming the price list reflected the British Sterling price for existing colonies for those still using British Sterling as their monetary unit, each country would have had different levels of shipping costs, and as these would be different all around the world, it would have been impossible to issue a single price list that included shipping and insurance costs.  It would then be up to the distributors in each Colony to add these costs prior to retail sale. As can be seen with the above catalogues in my last Post, Australia (as well as  Canada and New Zealand) were provided by Meccano with their own price lists and catalogues. An interesting thing with New Zealand, due to import restrictions that were in place in the early 1950s, Dinky Toys were generally unavailable.  Not quite certain with the phrase “generally unavailable”, which I take it to mean that occasionally, Dinky Toys were permitted to be imported by Meccano’s agent in that country, Models Ltd in Auckland.

To provide an idea of the pricing difference between United Kingdom Sterling and Australia Pound (divided into shillings and pence – changed to decimal in 1966) I am adding the back page for each country’s price leaflet for January 1958 at the bottom of this Post.

Finally, I neglected to include in my last Post, the folded, all-colour price list that was issued in April-May 1957 with a print code of 7/457/150.  

This leaflet was re-issed in February 1958, which advised of Revised Prices.

The leaflet utilised the same year and print number details as for 1957 with no overprinted revised print details. The "new list" to which these changes refer is at the bottom of this Post.

Kind regards

Bruce H.   (150)

20170607/1121/0124


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janwerner
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Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

A real treat, Jan and Bruce, showing so many various early post-war printed material designs - and the interesting contents! Kind regards, Jan W. 


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Jan Oldenhuis
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Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Bruce, thank you very much for all the beautiful pictures of your very nice collection Meccano catalogues. A very complete and colourful overview of the Meccano catalogues of the 50's you have. Indeed that was the best era of Meccano Liverpool. 

Your very clear additional and comprehensive explanation about the export/sterling price lists declares much to me now. A nice comparison of the January 1958 price lists of U.K. and Australia to see the price differences. Of course you have to pay more in Australia then in U.K.

I add some pictures of Meccano catalogues of the 50's to complete your summing up.

1949 U.K. World-Famous Toys print code 13/1049/150. Note the cars and trains drives the same road.

U.K. 15th April 1953 print code 16/453/50. Boy with excavator and railway with trains. Same content as the catalogue after this.

UK 15th April 1953 print code 16/453/50. Boy with excavator. Same content as the catalogue for this.

1953 U.K. Price 2d Print code 13/953/678 with 1st OCTOBER 1953 top right instead of top left

1954-5 U.K.  print code 13/654/995 Revised Prices 1st February 1955. 

1955/6 U.K. price 2d print code 13/655/797  Revised Prices 

The last general Meccano catalogue U.K. 1958 price 4d print code 13/758/450.

Back to the print codes.

When we are talking about print codes of Meccano catalogues we have to keep in mind that already before the war, dealers could choose  out of different illustrated front covers for a Meccano catalogue of the year of publication. That’s why there are several different covers on Meccano catalogues from one and the same year of publication. He also could choose to print a dealer stamp of his shop on the cover or not and ordered to Meccano Liverpool the quantity of the catalogues he wanted.  But, note that not the illustration on the front cover, but the print code determines the contents of the catalogue, either in landscape or portrait format. The general contents of catalogues with a particular print code are equal to each other. Only the outside of illustrated front covers can be different with one and the same print code.

In the summing up of images of Bruce’s collection Meccano catalogues in post #8 you saw already 4 different illustrated front covers of the Meccano U.K. catalogue of 1st October 1953, but they have all the same print code 13/953/678 and exactly the same content. Only the front cover is different.

1953 was the last year that dealers could choose out of various illustrations of the front cover. After that appeared only one and the same general front cover before the Meccano catalogues of a particular year.

In this context I show pictures of my different pre-war illustrated front covers from the general Meccano catalogues U.K. 1938-1939 with print code 13/638/1150 and  1939-1940 with print code 13/639/1,1500 U.K. The contents of these catalogues with the same print code are all exact the same.

Kind regards,

Jan Oldenhuis 7-6-2017

Front cover U.K. 1938-1939 with print code 13/638/1150

Front cover U.K. 1938-1939 with print code 13/638/1150

Front cover U.K. 1938-1939 with print code 13/638/1150. The same cover as after this the 1939-1940 catalogue, but another print code and thus, according to the principle of the print code, another content.

Front cover U.K. 1939-1940 Price 1d with print code 13/639/1,1500 U.K. The same cover as before this the 1938-1939 catalogue, but another print code and thus, according to the principle of the print code, another content.

Front cover U.K. 1939-1940 Price 1d with print code 13/639/1,1500 U.K.

Front cover U.K. 1939-1940 Price 1d with print code 13/639/1,1500 U.K. Same front cover as Meccano France 1939-1940, but other Meccano Liverpool related content.

Front cover Meccano catalogue France 1938-39 print code  C.C.Paris 739-72. Same front cover as U.K. 1939-1940, but other Meccano Paris related content.


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Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Bruce & Jan
A wonderful article on catalogs, along with so many nice images. Aside from the models themselves, the catalogs tell an important story about Meccano and Dinky, and the continuing development, especially during those early to mid-1950's years, when so much was happening. Thanks to you both!
Best regards, Terry


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Dinkinius
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Re : -First Dinky Toys and publications after the War.

Jan and Terry

First of all Terry - thank you so much for your kind words about our collection of catalogues.  I have always found these to be fascinating which was the reason for me endeavouring to locate and acquire an example of every one issued.  I still have a few to find though according to Ramsay's Diecast Catalogue listing!  I quite agree with you that the 1950s was a glorious part of my life - Dinky Toys, Hornby trains, Meccano sets -  and EAGLE comic weekly with Dan Dare, PC49, Luck of the Legion, Jeff Arnold and Riders of the Range, and not forgetting Chicko and Harris Tweed! Ah, the memories . . . . .  !

Jan - tucked away at the bottom of the box of catalogues, and not included in my last Post was my copy of the last Meccano Toys of Quality catalogue for 1958, with the same print code as yours, 13/758/450, mine having had the printed toy store of Allan Brett Cannon Ltd on the front cover, who had their premises at 32 Railway Approach, London Bridge Station.  I have walked around the area of London Bridge Station many times but never thought of checking out who is the current tenant at 32 Railway Approach.  I must check it out should I return to the UK one day!

The mention of EAGLE reminds me that I have often wondered why Meccano did not make better use of that weekly to announce new Dinky Toys, although from 1960 on the company did make a major effort with purchasing advertising space as the image below attests, part of the full page advertisement published in the 5 November 1960 issue.

With the publication date of 5 November 1960, readers of EAGLE would have probably known about the two new models shown, the 782 SHELL and 783 BP petrol pump stations before seeing the advertisement on the back cover of the November 1960 issue of MECCANO MAGAZINE. The "new" Jaguar of course came out in August, so it was not really "new". 

Kind regards

Bruce H.   (150)

20172306/1125/1243