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janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

--23 Series (General)

Hi Bas and John, I have just created this 23 Series (General) topic, in which some of your exciting contributions in this field may have a good fit! Kind regards, Jan 

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

Thank you Jan. I look forward to seeing Bas's collection in detail and I shall study your beautiful examples with envy. I also have about a dozen examples of the various 35 series cars but I shall make sure that they go into an appropriate thread.

Happy Easter everyone!

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Bas
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Dear Jan, John and other members,

Here are some of my Auto Union's. I assume that pre war versions were in yellow, orange, blue, silver, red and green (never saw a green pre war). Post war were in silver and red and later in the green French Dinky version? I assume that the drivers versions were pre war only? What is your opinion on replacing the tyres? I am very reluctant to change anything as long as supposed original. Never saw a box, apart from gift sets and a trade box. Were these cars sold without box?  

thank you for your interest, happy easter, Bas

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Bas
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...and a simple warning; I bought one once so I learned my lesson. As an 23 Auto Union is much more expensive with driver it is lucrative for a seller to order or make a driver from 3D printer, remove the plate and place a driver. It is for a buyer a simple check to look at the plate and the quality of the driver but someone like me has to bump its head first to discover later!

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janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Bas, so many colours, nice!

You will never find an individual box, because they simply do not exist. Drivers can be found post-war too, but in the very early 1945/46 models only, with smooth hubs (see picture below).

If you wish to proceed with exclusive 23d Auto Union posts, you had better use that topic in the future. Thanks and kind regards, Jan 

P.S. I try to avoid replacing original tyres, see the extremely flat tyres of the Searchlight Lorry below. But I changed them (with fully original and correctly matching tyres) on the Foden Wagon, which had incoherent, various later block tread tyres.  

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Bas
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I found this Dinky on auction. It was repainted in beautifull blue, I presume the original colour of the original car, the Renault Nervasport land speed record car. I carefully chipped off the blue, but quite impossible to remove all. Any suggestions on further removing the blue paint? Is the red colour the original colour? Does this car belong to the 23 family? Apart from the Dinky Toy mark is says ''Made in" and then nothing but must be UK? I assume pre war. Is this a bit of a mistery car?Thanks!

Bas 

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Hello Bas,

                

This is the French Dinky Toys ref. 23b which was finished in many colours with a contrasting flash on the bonet. The racing number could be from 1 to 12. Yours is a very late postwar issue with ridged hubs and rubber tyres on which the marking is worn. On earliest models one could easily read MECCANO DINKY TOYS MADE IN FRANCE. Your photo does not show the area where the word FRANCE is suposed to be.

                          

This car was first issued from 1935 until 1939 (not 1940 as writen elsewhere) with smooth hubs (some plated) and DUNLOP coloured, black or white tyres. The 1945 models had solid diecast wheels until 1950 and later cream finished ridged hubs with black "M" rubber tyres.

                             

                                                                          This is how your model should look like

The prototype for this model is definitely NOT the Renault Nervasport. This is one of the too many errors which you have read in a very poor book in French. The door of the Nervasport was on the left hand side and on the Dinky it is on the right hand side which means that the 1/1 car was almost certainly the Delahaye 135 which beat the Renault Nervasport record one month later. Also the rear of the body does not match the Renault, the Meccano boys would not have done such a mistake.

A unique case in the Dinky Toys history, the reference number 23b was used at the same time after the war for the French Hotchkiss and this Delahaye.

If you want to collect all the variations, there are about fifty.

Aditional reading : https://autojauneblog.fr/tag/delahaye-135/

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Bas
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txs for the feedback! great to find this specialist input against my assumptions. You are right; 'France' is mentioned, allthough unreadable without magnification.  Would love to collect the variations (so many) byut I hardy find these on market. Also part of my learing curve Meccano boys..txs again!

 

 

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

Bas, you may have noticed the single example of the Nervasport/Delahaye in my post that followed your original message. It's been repainted quite well but in a non-Dinky colour. I too had trouble finding it and had to wait until one was listed on ebay.uk rather than ebay.fr. Patience is a great virtue in a Dinky collector!

What spoils the restoration of mine is the crude way in which the axles have been crimped. I shall eventually remove them and strip the casting so I can repaint in a more eye-catching Dinky scheme. Having Jacques' photo to go by is very convenient. Like yours the word FRANCE is reduced to the letters AN on my casting. 

I look forward to seeing more of your collection.

John

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

While we are discussing racing cars and as there is no special thread for this information, I place it here.

With the covide 19, all the television chanels have a single piece of information, the virus. But other things hapen in the world and I have just learned that Sir Stirling Moss has left us on last sunday at the age of 90.

I can remember spending the week end with him at Le Mans in June 1966 or 67. We had both been hired by ABC the american television chanel, Stirling as technical advisor and me as interpreter.

This is a great loss for the automobile and sports communauty, Stirling has been one of the greatest figures in the motor racing world. He is probably the last one to go after all these great pilots like Mike Hawthorn, Graham and Phill Hill, Jean Bhera, Jim Clark, Jacky Stewart and many others.

Rest in peace Stirling.

binnsboy650
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DTCA MemberUK

I happily echo what Jacques says about Stirling Moss. I was fortunate enough to watch him, along with many of the other great drivers Jacques mentions, when I was a child. He was a true sportsman and gentleman.

Happily too, Sir Jackie Stewart is still breathing!

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janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

The later 1950s 23 series, a picture taken in 2008 by Dave Busfield for the DTCA Dinky Toys 75th Anniversary Calendar. Obviously the Alfa Romeo is a later no. 232, with its plastic wheels. Kind regards, Jan