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Richard's picture
Richard
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--34c and 492 Loudspeaker Van (1948-57)

Now, I think it's time to create a new topic.
So here are my loud-speaker van's family.

Still a hard job to do for a complete range !
The Dave series is so nice !

Here under are my informations :
A) first reference made around 1948: 34c
Combinations are :
light grey, black loud-speaker and wheels
Royal blue, silver loud-speaker and black wheels
Maroon, silver loud-speaker and black wheels
Green, black loud-speaker and wheels
Sand/grey, black loud-speaker and wheels

B)second reference made around 1954 : 492
Royal blue, silver loud-speaker and wheels
Royal blue, silver loud-speaker and light blue wheels

Dave, which is the colour of yours between the sand/grey and the light grey on your photo ?
I heard that there are two other combinations that I never seen : grey with black loud-speaker and grey wheels and maroon with black loud-speaker !! :huh:

Are some members able to complete those informations ?

Perhaps some moderator can move the beautiful Dave's photo in this topic.

Good evening and again happy new year.
Richard

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Indeed, Dave has the best and most varied range of loudspeaker vans. The modest number I can present:

And finally, this makes the difference:

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan
Very nice as usual! Was that Nestle a special promotion, or a Code 3 effort by someone? I have a plain red van and have not seen this one before.
Terry

Richard's picture
Richard
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Jan,
I feel like the colour green of your van is lighter than mine !
are there two green in the range ?
Somebody knows ??
Richard

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan and others--
The Delivery Van is interesting, and I sure cannot find much on it at all by looking in the normal references. I did not see it listed in any of the early post war samples of advertising, or even mentioned in the new model area, such as was done when the Loudspeaker Van was introduced in 1948. I also looked in both my 1952 and 1953 Dinky catalogs, and no mention or showing of it there either. Dr. Force's book does not even list the post war version at all, and there is scant mention and no pictures in the GBofDT.
And Jan, with yours showing the Nestle advertising...waiting to hear your response as to if it is original. Cecil Gibson, in his early book "History of British Dinky Toys, 1934-1964", states that the 28 Delivery Van may have been available with advertising...........interesting!
I bought mine in 1959 from H. Hudson Dobson, and I looked at the invoice they sent along with it...it is simply referred to as #28 Delivery Van.
So a somewhat obscure little model that Dinky re-introduced around 1947 and made until about 1953 or so, but not appearing anywhere and somewhat forgotten today!
I will have to take some photos of mine and post later. It is more of a red/maroon color than Jan's and is plain with no advertising. Does anyone else have examples of this model?
And a final note Jan; since your van does not have the extra casting area for the Loudspeaker stem to fit into, I wonder if it is a pre-war casting re-used after the war? It appears to have the thicker post war axles.

Terry

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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I managed to find time to take some pictures of both my #28 Delivery Van and also the 34C Loudspeaker Van.
Terry

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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Here it is, numbered 28 in an undated catalogue for the USA market, which I date at 1947/48. It is also shown for instance in Model Cars & Road Vehicles by Patrick Trench on page 66. There, it is referred to as 280, which is also used. In fact this reference fits into the old numbering system, as 280 was later adopted for the Observation Coach. Trench puts the period of availability at 1948-1951, which is quite plausible. The model is not scarce, but indeed it is not paid much attention to in many reference works. I am still looking for mint examples, both red and blue. The casting without reinforcement within the roof is the very earliest, except for the wider axle holes the same as the pre-war 3rd type van. Shortly after that, early 1948, the Loudspeaker Van is introduced, which necessitated the reinforced fitting for the loudspeaker, which is also seen (unused) on the later castings for the Delivery Van. My red one has later applied transfers, although I must admit that I had hoped for a long time that they might be original. In fact you can see the edges of the waterslide transfers, which would not show on originals. Regards, Jan

starni999
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dinkyfan wrote:
"I managed to find time to take some pictures of both my #28 Delivery Van and also the 34C Loudspeaker Van.
Terry

"

Hi Terry,
Lovely "tomato" shade of red there, not seen that before.
Chris Warr,

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan--Interesting observations on the Delivery Van. I am still somewhat troubled by a few things with this model, and just to add one more oddity, Jacques shows no pictures of the post war version at all in his Dinky Encyclopedia, and only barely mentions it in one sentence.
For one thing, I do not understand the change going from 28 to 280. It appears that this model was discontinued around 1951.....wasn't that before Meccano started the new numbering system? It was certainly originally introduced post war as #28. The companion Loudspeaker Van was not re-numbered to 492 until the 1954 catalog, where it is dual numbered.
And I re-looked at the Great Book of Dinky Toys, and Mike Richardson puts the dates of manufacture as 1945-1951. I didn't think Dinky actually made any new toys in 1945, so am inclined to think it was likely introduced in 1946 or early 1947. 1948 seems a bit late to re-introduce something that was ready to go.
Do any other members have any other pictures of this little van to share, or a trade box?

Terry

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janwerner
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Yes, Terry, there is much confusion about the exact data regarding this model. Perhaps - besides the rather simplicity and not special attractive character of this model - that's why many authors avoid this model more or less. The trouble started when Meccano ran out of numbers, pre-war already, for the 3rd type van and after 28y continued the range with 280a, 280b etc. - that is, for the third type van only. So later on the general van was often referred to as 280 by authors. In fact, post-war Meccano discontinued all advertising on the van and resumed the numbering with the bare 28 number, as can be seen in the catalogue reference and on the trade box shown below.
If 'bare' vans with smooth hubs do exist (and with oper rear windows) it can very well have been produced immediately post-war already. Vans are referred to with open rear windows, but I'm not sure if I have seen them. If so, it might have been a very affordable immediately post-war model, suitable for a poor and exhausted home market.
Trench's reference 1948-1951 seems too tight to me. Anyway, some time before introduction of the Loudspeaker Van, so 1947 or earlier, as considered above. The final date may even be 1952, because that is the year when the Dinky range was extensively renovated and virtually all old-fashioned models were discontinued. In fact this model has forward crimped axle ends only, which lasted on many old-fashioned models until 1952. By the way, Patrick Trench states in his Dinky Toy Compendium (to the DT&MM book) the even shorter availability of 1949-1951, which is easy to argue not to be correct.
Although the three digit number looks as a new number, I intended to stress that is is in fact a number in the old numbering range. Actually is was replaced post-war by 28 again.
I am again surprised that such 'old-fashioned' models were still in stock in the USA at the end of the 1950s, as you show.
Finally, here is the post-war trade box, the natural card board one with yellow stickers.

Best regards, Jan

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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I found one on the internet!

Here it is, with smooth hubs, thick axles and closed rear windows. This one cannot be later than 1946.

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan
That one you just showed makes it very clear to me that the 28 was very probably introduced in 1946. Another indication involves an old thread on Talk Model Toys, where someone posted a picture of a very early postwar with not only smooth black hubs, but also white tires. I am quite sure that those 2 features, to me at least, date it to 1946. As to a deletion date I tend to think likely 1951 as it is not in the catalog any longer, but possible some we're made into early 1952.
I guess we can also conclude that the post war model was never officially numbered 280 by Meccano, but that collectors and others have adopted it for reference purposes. A good example of how we are still uncovering little mysteries in our Dinky's and will continue to do so!
Terry

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

I would love to see a Post War 28 with open windows!
Chris Warr.

Richard's picture
Richard
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Thank's again to my postwoman who brought me this morning a new member of my loud speaker family.

Waiting for the next
:cheer:
Richard

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Townie54
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You've got me looking at my vans! My 280 is pillar box red like the Morris J, not tomatoey like Terry's. The reinforcement is not only visible inside but also by a discernible kink to the roof ridge; no kink visible on the blue smooth wheel photo you have found so clearly pre loudspeaker.

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dinkycollect
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Early post war issue.
It is no use to argue about dates as we can only estimate them. Are we talking about manufacturing dates or dates of availability.

Dinky Toys were made in batches or runs, the largest one starting two or three months before launching because the models had to be delivered world wide to every Meccano dealer. Most Meccano Magazines states that the models would be "available later overseas". This is the reason why all the dates in Dr. Force's book are different from those of most books. Force's dates are the dates of availability (issue) in the states, not in Europe.

More runs were made as needed and quite a large stock was maintained at the factories. This stock might have last for several years after the last batch was made and the models could be available in some shops for several years after the model had been deleted from the range and the catalogues. So we may have a span of at least five years between the last production and end of availability.

There are very few examples where Meccano published that such and such a model would be deleted from the range, but these examples exist. What does the date of publication of deletion means ? That the last batch has been made ? That the last models have left the factory store ? or that Meccano wanted to clear up their store and flog what ever was left ?

All we can say about the post war 28 vans is that there are five variations and two different tradeboxes. This probably means five runs, the SADF one been off market.

The type 3 vans were issued with advertissements in 1939. The type 2 were advertised for the last time in the 1938 catalogue.

The 1946 price list (was there one in 1945 ?) advertised the plain type 3 van which means that P. Trench is wrong by two years.

Jan's picture above shows two different tradeboxes : type 3a and 3b.

It is not known when exactly the rear windows were filled in. The auction houses do not often mention this in their descriptions of "early post-war issue". The same applies to the axle diameter.

starni999
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Hi all,
Quick question, I've seen them listed, but do Blue, Brown, or Green Vans come with Black Loudspeakers? I've never seen one, but that doesn't mean much!
Chris Warr.

Richard's picture
Richard
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Hi Chris.
No, I don't think so.
Only silver grey.
Richard

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Richard--I just looked in Richardson's first book (Modelled Miniatures, etc), and it say that both fawn and brown loud speaker vans came with black speakers...but no pictures shown. Other references say only the grey one did. I haven't had a chance to look at Jacques Dinky Toys Encyclopedia, but he may list or show something there.......
Terry

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Richard
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Chris and Terry.
I have checked my several books : one says that green and brown have black speakers (but no photos) and the other one says only grey (photos with only grey speakers, of course).
I will look in my sales catalogues.
Richard

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dinkyfan
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I just checked the Talk Model Toys site for info they would have on the Loudspeaker Van, and there are several pictures posted. They show 2 different vans with black speakers: one is light grey, and the other is fawn. Possibly Jan or Jacques can add their comments to this.
Terry

Richard's picture
Richard
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Terry.
Here under the photo of the complete family, I think ! :)

I don't remember where I found this document !
Richard

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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The colours that I have listed are :

Black speakers

Grey body, green mud guard, black hubs. The parts between the twop speakers is also light green.
Grey body and hubs.
Grey body, black hubs.
Grey body, putty hubs.
Putty body and hubs.
Putty body, black hubs.

Silver speakers

Light green body black hubs.
Mid Green body, black hubs.
Brown, black hubs.
Dark blue, silver hubs.
Mid blue, light blue hubs.
Mid blue, black hubs.
Mid blue, silver hubs, late issue with domed axles ends.

I see on Richard's photo that there is also :

Red body, black hubs, silver speaker.
Cream body, black hubs, black speaker.
Light green body and hubs, black speaker.

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Richard wrote:
"Terry.
Here under the photo of the complete family, I think ! :)

I don't remember where I found this document !
Richard"

Cheers Gents,

Pretty much confirms what I thought, I now have all the versions in the picture above, except the third from right which is a shade of Aqua Blue?/Light Green? Unless it's light grey / grey hubs which I have?

I'll post a picture later in the week when I can finally get them all together.
Chris Warr.

buzzer999's picture
buzzer999
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Hi Terry the photo you show is mine and they are my vans

I am still on the lookout for different ones

Dave

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dinkyfan
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Dave--Just to set the record straight, I did not post that picture of your vans......Richard did, but I am assuming that was ok. It is a very nice collection, and good luck on finding some more!
Terry

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buzzer999
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Sorry Terry I should have looked closer, I don't mind at all about the photo.

Dave

starni999
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Hi all,
Just to say I haven't forgotten to post my pictures, my laptop has died with all the photos on, so I only have the work PC, soon as I get it sorted I'll post them !
Chris Warr.

starni999
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Hi all,
PC fixed!
Here is my version of Dave's lovely photo, mine's not so well done of course!

So, are there any more versions of these out there? I'd love to see some more body / hub / horn colour combinations if anybody has any. I think there may be shades on the blue?

Chris Warr.

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Chris---Very nice assortment of Loudspeaker Vans.....a great lineup for sure. You can't be missing too many of them!
Terry

Richard's picture
Richard
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Never saw this one before ! Does somebody have it in his collection ?
Richard

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