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janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

-512, 912 and 432 Guy Flat Truck (1947-57)

Hi, my example of the Guy Flat Truck bears the reference number 512 underneath the flat bed, whereas the accompanying yellow Dinky Toys lid box bears the number 432. As we all know the 500s are the first numbers for these Guy models (until 1954), which passing through the 900s (1954-1955) in between, end with the 400s (from 1955). The stamp inside is of 1956. I have reason to believe that box and model do belong to each other, despite the anachronism of the reference numbers. Both are in excellent to near mint condition and the inside of the box shows slight offset of the medium blue colour in front (which coincides with some very slight wear of that colour on the front of the model's cabin).

There are examples of cast-in numbers that never changed at all despite official renumbering - like 14A for the B.E.V. Truck, 30V for the Dairy Van etc.  Now the question is: did the reference number 512 underneath ever change after renumbering into 912 and 432? Or, is there any other plausible explanation for the 'number time-lag' of at least two years, bearing in mind that Meccano's actions are inscrutable?  See pictures attached.

Kind regards, Jan

55Zephyr
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Hello Jan, and greetings to everybody from Australia,

 

this is an interesting question which also applies to both the other two Guy lorries (511, 911 and 431 4-ton Lorry, and 513, 913 and 433 Flat Truck with tailboard). It also relates to the final Guy Warrior versions, 431 and 432 (the 433 with tailboard was never produced despite the existence of a factory assembly drawing).

 

The short answer to your question is that all three versions had the model number cast into the underside of the backs from some time around late 1954, but despite subsequent renumbering twice, first to the 900 series which I think happened at the same time, and then again to the 400 series in 1955, the number cast under the backs was never altered, remaining always as 511, 512 and 513.

 

I have thirty two boxed examples of these three models, from introduction in 1947 to eventual withdrawal in 1964, covering most colour combinations and box types and including five 'Warrior' examples - all those in the final 400 series boxes carry the numbers on the underside of the backs. Having checked all my Guy Lorries, this numbering seems to commence at the same time as the change in name (cast into the underside of the cab/chassis) from 'Dinky Supertoys' to 'Dinky Toys', which occurred in January 1955 according to the Meccano memo 20074 of that date 'Marking on Dinky Toys', and which is shown in Richardson's first book 'Dinky Toys and Modelled Miniatures' in the Hornby Companion Series.

 

Some of my models contained in the blue and white striped-lid boxes have these numbers cast in under the backs - out of interest, these boxes commonly carried the model number in the 500-series, but the renumbering to the 900 series must have been very brief as I have only been able to find one each of the 911 and 913 numbered boxes, (both are dual-numbered on the lid ends) and I believe it is likely that there was never a 912 striped-lid box produced. Even the two 900-series boxes I have are nevertheless printed as 'Dinky Toys', as the model never regained the 'Supertoy' status after it's downgrading in 1954/5.

 

I hope this information is of assistance - once the new Forum is in full operation I could write a feature with pictures to cover what is an interesting model with a considerable number of variations for the avid collector.

 

Like most of us, I look forward to the Forum returning to full health very soon!

Regards from Australia,  Adrian Nash (141)

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Thank you very much, Adrian, that is exactly the confirmation I hoped to get!

Looking forward to your article to follow ...

Kind regards, Jan

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

An acquaintance of mine, on another Dinky Toys website, posted some photos of a Guy Flat Truck, in what he thought was an uncommon color, but he wanted some assurance.  I told him I would ask here.  As you can see, this Flat Truck has a brown cab and a brown chassis.  The reference books I have seem to say that the brown cab always had black fenders and chassis.  I am a little suspicious of a repaint, as the base plate, in other photos doesn't seem mottled, and the axle ends look a bit odd to me....but I am not expert on this model, so would like other opinions as to the color.  I noticed that Adrain has a large collection of Guy trucks, but not sure if he is still active here, so I will try sending him a message too.  Thanks in advance for any help!

        Best regards,  Terry

dinkycollect's picture
dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

The Guy's ref 432 should be of the second type with the wedges on each side of the front registration plate but Vectis sold half a dozen of these trucks without the wedges and the shape of their casting seem to be different from the type 1 castings.

Can this be explained by one the Guy's experts ?

Thanks and regards

Jacques