Rob
Very nice to see those. Is that unpainted jib just a mistake, or was that a very late happening of its own??
Terry

Nice Rob, I'm still looking out for the one on the right. This makes me think, not of another wheel variation, but of the scarce French box for the Coles Mobile Crane, which was in use in 1951 only, for the British model, as imported into France. I have an almost pristine example:

Kind regards, Jan

dinkyfan wrote:
"Rob
Very nice to see those. Is that unpainted jib just a mistake, or was that a very late happening of its own??
Terry"

Terry

The last issues of the 971 in late 1961 to 1962 had an unpainted jib, although in TGBOD it is recorded under 571/971, when it should only be listed beside the 971. Note the rear striped safety markings on the back also as well as the yellow plastic hubs.

Rob, very nice Mobile Cranes; a model that is often overlooked.

Kind regards

Bruce

Rob,

That is a very rare item but the rarest is probably the promotionnal issue for the Coles agent in Germany. Very little is known about this variation. The box is specific and the model is probably the latest one with unpainted jib. Who has one ?

The lifting hook on this late version is either diecast in one piece or plastic. Are the olives on the crank steel or plastic ?

Your model seem to have the late plastic lifting hook but some of these cranes were fitted with the solid one piece diecast hook.

... and there is a parallel issue of the Lorry Mounted Crane:

hoort wrote:
"Hi Terry and Bruce,

Thanks for your reaction.
Bruce you are right on the unpainted jib. It was probably left unpainted to save cost on the last production batches.

Kind regards,
Rob"

Rob

You are more than likely 100% correct in that it was a cost saving factor. I have seen an example that was painted grey, but your's appears to be natural metal which it is supposed to be. Does the interior of the box's lid have an inspection stamp? I would be interested in knowing what it is, if in fact it does have a stamp! What about an original price written somewhere?

Cheers

Bruce

dinkycollect wrote:

Rob,

That is a very rare item but the rarest is probably the promotionnal issue for the Coles agent in Germany. Very little is known about this variation. The box is specific and the model is probably the latest one with unpainted jib. Who has one ?

The lifting hook on this late version is either diecast in one piece or plastic. Are the olives on the crank steel or plastic ?

Your model seem to have the late plastic lifting hook but some of these cranes were fitted with the solid one piece diecast hook."

Jacques

The Coles German promotional is normal in every way including the jib.

Bruce

Bruce,

Is the German promotionnal yours ? If so I would welcome a large picture of the box and one of the box and crane.

Thanks,

Jacques.

This arrived today.

It has open back windows, I am on the lookout for more variations of this lovely model now.

Dave

Three 157 Jaguar XK120s with three different wheel hubs.

I think this is all the hub variations that go with the Sage Green car.

Dave

Hi all,
Finally managed to find a Plymouth Estate with spun hubs that wasn't too battered even for me!

Chris Warr

hoort wrote:
"Looks like cast silver color hubs on the metallic green Ford and spun aluminium hubs on the apple green. I am not sure. Cast silver hubs are surely found on the 167 AC Aceca.
Kind regards,
Rob"
Rob
Both Ford Fairlanes were shod with turned aluminium hubs. The metallic green version of the 148 (on the right) wore hubs identical to the 196 Holden Special Sedan which were also the same hubs used with many other cars. It seems that there were in fact two versions of the aluminium turned (spun) hubs in use, and these can be seen with the 197/199, as well as with other vehicles such as the 263 and 269 and I have seen later issues of 195 with both styles of "spun hubs".
As for the 167 with cast silver hubs, I have never seen authentic silver/chrome ridged hubs on this model, however, if one believes the description with a number of Vectis auction lots, then cast silver hubs exist, except all the 167s I have seen on auction through Vectis, although described as "silver painted cast hubs", or "cast metal hubs", or "chrome spun hubs" were in fact turned aluminium hubs, or what we refer these days as spun hubs. A check of each photograph proves this beyond doubt. There were however two silver ridged hubs sold a number of years ago through Vectis, but these were over-painted by a previous owner.
Kind regards
Bruce

Hey, what are you talking about ? You refer to some pictures but which ones ?

Not a very polite way of asking a question, besides, the post was directed to Rob, not you. If you take the time to scroll back you will see I am referring to my picture of two 148 Ford Fairlanes. There is no way that I could have included that post as well as Rob's post without going to extra-ordinary trouble. The problem is that nobody, not even you responded at the time to what Rob had written about "cast silver hubs". So one can ask, why bother trying to bring something new or different to the attention of collectors of Dinky Toys when no respectable discussion takes place.

Bruce--
You have made some good points about lack of response to some topic items, and I will have to plead guilty to some of them. If indeed, I have good knowledge of a topic being discussed, I will almost always jump in with my thoughts and/or pictures. But also, many times, the topics are far outside either my collecting interest, or knowledge, such as this detailed discussion on wheels, or rare colors. In those cases, since I have nothing to add, I don't............
I would like to think that in the past year, we have revived discussion and many topics heretofore unaddressed have been. It certainly isn't perfect, and we still have somewhat limited participation, but I will take that over not having a forum at all.
Regards,
Terry

I totally and utterly echo everything that Terry has just said.

My interests are post war and I really cannot add anything to pre war discussions.

I do get involved on the post war things if I think I can add anything that is meaningful.

There was another forum called Talk Model Toys which seams to have now gone. If that is the case an incredible amount of knowledge and information has disappeared - and that will be tragic.

What we are discussing are toys - THIS SHOULD BE FUN!!!!!

We need this Forum to thrive and to succeed.

Dave

This IS fun, and fortunately it's in the hands of all of us to keep it that way :)
For me it's the same as stated by some above: I will always answer and assist, but only if I am convinced that my reply is useful and on topic, and not some twittering around. If I would count the many discussions I tried to start or requests I had hoped to get an answer to ... :angry:
Let's proceed cheerfully, times have been worse, kindest regards, Jan

Always good to remember that we have many members from all over the world, in many cases English is not the native language so what may seem perfectly acceptable in our own languages may not translate well into English, it happens so lets remember this and keep things light and fun.

Had a recent experience like this in Portugal, turns out that Brazilian Portuguese & Portuguese have some interesting opposites (not very polite!), thankfully though the Portuguese realised I was using Brazilian words & pronunciation so I was saved the embarrassment (and bloody nose).

I for one have enjoyed my fleeting visits to the forum, especially seeing rare gems that have been unearthed in member

Bruce,

I did not want to be agressive in any way, I did go back half a dozen pages to find the picture of the Fairlanes but did not expect to find it 21 pages away. Anyway, I have now found the picture, duplicated it and attach it to your post which I can now understand.

If I have hurt you, please excuse me, I did not mean to and I can delete the post containing my question.

I know that not getting an answer to a post for which we have spent a lot of research time is frustating, I have writen many such posts which will probably not get answered because they get lost in the mess that this forum is by lack of design. On talk Model Toys, some posts have been answered several years after posting them , this for several reason : because the knowledge was not there at the time or because a new member had joined etc...

Any way, I have a list with pictures of 132 different Dinky Toys wheels and the very shiny ones that are the subject of this discussion are not yet in this lists which will then be 133.

I have found such wheels with dia. 10 mm. on all my 258 police cars, and on the 265 - 266 Plymouth Taxis also 148, 191 etc... The ambulances 263 and 277 Superior Criterion ambulances, 195 and 269 Jaguars 3.4, 197 and 199 Mini travellers, 260 VW Bundespost etc... have similar hubs but only dia. 8 mm.

Both types (dia 8 and dia 10 mm.) were introduced in 1960.

We have to find a name for those hubs, I think that "cast silver hubs" is not convenient as they are both spun as shown by the photos below, they are not silver but chrome plated.

Its amazing how tiny 8 or 10 millimeter discs can raise long discussions !

Jacques

diameter 8 mm hub from the # 236 ambulance.

diameter 10 mm. hub from the # 264 Ford Fairlane RCMP car.

Jacques

Ever since it was first launched you have been ultra critical of the DTCA Forum.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that this is all we have right now, furthermore it does work well.

It is time for us to enjoy what we have and concentrate on Dinky Toys.

Dave

dinkycollect wrote:
"Bruce,

I did not want to be agressive in any way, I did go back half a dozen pages to find the picture of the Fairlanes but did not expect to find it 21 pages away. Anyway, I have now found the picture, duplicated it and attach it to your post which I can now understand.

If I have hurt you, please excuse me, I did not mean to and I can delete the post containing my question.

I know that not getting an answer to a post for which we have spent a lot of research time is frustating, I have writen many such posts which will probably not get answered because they get lost in the mess that this forum is by lack of design. On talk Model Toys, some posts have been answered several years after posting them , this for several reason : because the knowledge was not there at the time or because a new member had joined etc...

Any way, I have a list with pictures of 132 different Dinky Toys wheels and the very shiny ones that are the subject of this discussion are not yet in this lists which will then be 133.

I have found such wheels with dia. 10 mm. on all my 258 police cars, and on the 265 - 266 Plymouth Taxis also 148, 191 etc... The ambulances 263 and 277 Superior Criterion ambulances, 195 and 269 Jaguars 3.4, 197 and 199 Mini travellers, 260 VW Bundespost etc... have similar hubs but only dia. 8 mm.

Both types (dia 8 and dia 10 mm.) were introduced in 1960.

We have to find a name for those hubs, I think that "cast silver hubs" is not convenient as they are both spun as shown by the photos below, they are not silver but chrome plated.

Its amazing how tiny 8 or 10 millimeter discs can raise long discussions !

Jacques

diameter 8 mm hub from the # 236 ambulance.

diameter 10 mm. hub from the # 264 Ford Fairlane RCMP car.

"
Jacques
No need to apologise - or delete your previous post. (If you did, everyone else's post would be meaningless!) Let us leave it there, all warts and all. I did not mean to "sound off", but at least I did bring out a real problem with this Forum. Serious discussions on a topic tend to become swamped with "back-patting" or basic waffling - even I am guilty. (The terminology "back-patting" was brought to my attention by a friend, a Brit now living here in Australia in a recent email.) I think therein rests a problem. I know we all would like to know how others think of a photo submitted, or a general comment, but perhaps these could be placed in another thread so that the basic discussion does not become swamped and buried by "waffling"!
As Dave put it succinctly - "What we are discussing are toys - THIS SHOULD BE FUN!!!!!"
But at the same time, when there is a serious topic, let us keep Posts to that topic but only if relevant information can be added. I like reading about something of which I was previously unaware, and I frequently go back to that discussion, but so often this is complicated when there are so many irrelevant discussions to wade through. Perhaps if members who would like to make a general comment on a Thread not containing any useful information, could be made under the Forum Thread, or some other General Thoughts and Comments thread that someone could initiate.

Thank you Jacques for the additional information on the diameter of both versions of the spun hubs. Meccano referred to the hubs being made from aluminium, so the use of words such as "chrome" and "cast silver hubs" are inappropriate as they are not "chromed" which is an additional process, and they are not cast, but turned/machined. Meccano mentioned them as being "turned aluminium hubs" and a friend in New Zealand wrote having seen "plated hubs", but these days the more common name has been "spun hubs" which I think we should use as "turned aluminium hubs" is too much of a mouthful!

In regard to the introduction of these hubs, I think the date would be December 1958 for the large diameter hub used with the 192 De Soto unless someone has an authentic 192 with ridged hubs. If so, then the next contender would be the February 1959 arrival of the 150 Rolls Royce. The smaller hubs would be May 1959, the 189 Triumph Herald being the first model to be shod with these.

I do not think it is "amazing" that small 8mm or 10mm "discs can raise long discussions! Delete the waffle and it is a very small discussion. At least this has brought to the fore information of benefit on a subject coming under "Wheel Variations". Perhaps someone can continue it by listing the models that used both types of spun hubs. (The 195 Jaguar actually used both types apart from the police version. there may be others as well. Then of course we should also include the larger Supertoys that were shod with spun hubs, which I think were larger than 10mm.

Finally, I never want to offend anyone but if I inadvertently do, please email me through the DTCA and I will take on board any comments and mend my ways!

Bruce

Dinkinius wrote:
"dinkycollect wrote:

Rob,

That is a very rare item but the rarest is probably the promotionnal issue for the Coles agent in Germany. Very little is known about this variation. The box is specific and the model is probably the latest one with unpainted jib. Who has one ?

The lifting hook on this late version is either diecast in one piece or plastic. Are the olives on the crank steel or plastic ?

Your model seem to have the late plastic lifting hook but some of these cranes were fitted with the solid one piece diecast hook."

Jacques

The Coles German promotional is normal in every way including the jib.

Bruce

"dinkycollect wrote:
"Bruce,

Is the German promotionnal yours ? If so I would welcome a large picture of the box and one of the box and crane.

Thanks,

Jacques."

Regrettably Jacques, this promotional Coles Mobile Crane is not mine. It appeared on eBay in July 2007 from a German seller and I was very tempted to lodge a high bid in order to obtain it. However at the time, my knowledge of this promotional was rather limited and I did not know what I would be getting myself into. So, I gave it a miss, but saved all the images, so my apologies if their size means you are unable to use them. Now I do wish I had placed a bid on this quite unique and unusual model! I never saw the 972 as a similar promotional on eBay or anywhere else.
Herewith is a picture of the base which I forgot to include previously.
Finally, I was reading a post I made concerning questions being asked and not answered and I recalled your question. I stand guilty as charged!
Kind regards
Bruce