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janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

--24o Coupé Studebaker (1949-1951)

One of the scarcer post-war French Dinky Toys issues, this Studebaker State Commander, or, as known in the French catalogue: Coupé Studebaker. The model, French no. 24O, was available in the tight period 1949-1951 only, and even shorter, in 1949 only with the all zamak wheels (tyres included). Like the British no. 39a Packard Super 8 Tourer, the die for the no. 39f  Studebaker State Commander was used in Paris for the production of French re-issues, after the discontinuation of the production of these models in the Liverpool factory.

The example shown here was sold as a repaint, and I think it is. But still I cannot completely exclude yet that it is an original (which is rare and valuable). That may be due to my lack of deeper experience with French Dinky Toys. If it is a repaint it is very expertly done and, because of its rarity, the unusual deviating base plate 'Fab en France' and the remarkable all-metal wheels, it deserves a place in my collection. 

Three characteristics make me doubt the authenticity of the paint finish:

-The manual painting (no mask spraying) of the silver details, bumpers, grille - or were these details occasionally done by hand in the French factory?

-The almost lacking of the familiar ridge running over the top length of the model, caused by the die halves - or is it possible that the French occasionally gave this ridge a more thorough polish treatment? Even the boot has some of its contour lines almost polished or worn away.

-The base plate looks good, but still a bit too rough in my opinion.

Of course a good inspection can only be done with the model in hand, but nevertheless I hope my photos can arouse some comments and opinions. Kind regards, Jan 

 

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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Jan--A most interesting model that you have, and, as usual, some questions are raised. In looking over your very good photos, plus reading what you have seen, leads me also to an uncertain decision. On one hand, like you, I have always tended to view brushed silver areas as re-dos. Whenever Dinky used masks, it hardly ever resulted in heavy applications of paint; rather, many times it was lighter,coverage, and usually had telltale faint spray mists on the borders. To me, this is the hardest area for restorers to duplicate. On the other hand, those crimped axle ends look very factory to me, and not easy to duplicate without the right tool. I suppose if the car was originally red and someone just re-painted the exterior, they wouldn't have to take it apart, but your paint job looks too nice for that. My own English Studebaker, from the same era, shows a faint casting line running down the roof....faint, but it is there, but no telling what extra steps the French may have taken. To me, they often times turned out a nicer product than the English.
You would have thought that the English would have sent over their masking tools, along with the dies, but maybe not.....if not, than the French would had to hand paint all of the silver trim, which would explain yours. I would ask others that have some of that French series to look closely at their silver; perhaps Jacques would know! I am leaning that yours is original, and that you found a rare, very nice piece!
Best regards, Terry

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Thanks, Terry, for your appreciated considerations. On the few pictures I have seen of this issue there are also examples with mask-produced silver details. But, like on some English models, both manually and mask painted examples might exist ... Additional comments from others very welcome! Kind regards, Jan 

 

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

Jan---I wish we knew more about those masks.....what they were made off, how long did they last, problems with them? If one failed for some reason, did they have a backup ready? If not, they would have no choice but to hand paint them. The masked areas for silver are often very tiny, with little room for error.....I have always been impressed just how well they worked almost all the time. As I mentioned, to me, it is all but impossible to get the same look by brushing silver on as restorers must.
Best regards, Terry

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Jan and Terry

Meccano had within their assembly line, a group of young ladies whose task was to use a paint brush to touch-up models as well as actually applying paint to areas of a model that were difficult to spray without causing excess over-spray.

The photograph below, cropped from a larger image shows one of these young ladies, with much dexterity and two paint brushes in hand, actually applying silver paint to two 132 Packard Convertibles with a group of these models in the foreground, far more than just a small number requiring touch-ups.. The larger photograph also shows the conveyor belt in front of these ladies carrying a group of Double Deck Buses and on the other side of the belt, a collection of open tins  with paint. The photograph also has open tins in front of the two ladies, one of whom I have cut from the photograph.

The photograph does not prove everything, except Meccano did carry out touch-ups of varying degrees with varying colours of paint.

Incidentally, I have a 39f Studebaker State Commander, with some of the grille obviously spray-painted and the other half of the grille having an obvious touch-up. The model itself has never been repainted/restored or anything like a touch-up, unless i did it in my sleep!

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

20160902/969/1710

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

It was exactly this photo, Bruce, that I had in mind when making my remark about mixed/alternating mask and hand-painting procedures and occasions! (Besides some models themselves that testify of that). Thanks and kind regards, Jan 

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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Jan

The lady in the photograph is actually the fifth last before the end of the conveyor belt., with a similar number on the right side, all doing different things with different models.  Further up the conveyor belt are the suction vents for the hand-spraying of things such as the silver grilles, the upper colour yellow for the 27h Disc Harrow, the side flash on the 29e Single Deck Bus, brown panels for the 27f Estate Car and 29c Double Deck Bus (showing the method of applying the lower colour) as well as the 132 Packard Convertible, the latter indicating that these pictures were taken in different years.

Unfortunately I am experiencing a problem in that I can no longer upload any images of any size through either method of uploading, otherwise I would include several more cropped images.  The cropping is by necessity as these images have been copyrighted by the commercial owner of these images.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

20160903/971/1223

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Jan

Here are some pictures of my Studebaker State Commander relevant to the above Post.  As I stated before, this little fellow has not been subjected to a paint brush or spray pack by me, but it does show obvious skills with the paint brush in the factory when one closely examines the grille and bumper bars.

Nice to have the website back to normality - many thanks Al and Dave.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

20160907/973/1105

dinkyfan's picture
dinkyfan
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DTCA MemberUSA

Jan--That is exactly why I tend to think your Studebaker is a rare original one; hand painting could & did happen.
Best regards,
Terry

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Thank you very much for these details, Bruce. Mysterious why you cannot upload images properly. I haven't experienced such problems for a very long time already. Nevertheless, do not worry, I have all these unveiling Meccano factory photos at my disposal, ordered many years ago from 'Reflections' in the range of 20th Century Images.

As a test I have tried to upload an image of the newcomer surrounded by its contemporaries, but this failed too.

Thanks for your additional comment, Terry, I would love to conclude that it is fully original, but some doubts remain. The only thing is to show this object frequently to fellow collectors in the time to come (fortunately there are still many question marks to be eliminated, one of the intriguing aspects of our hobby). Kind regards, Jan

Dinkinius's picture
Dinkinius
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AustraliaDTCA Member

Jan - Thank you for mentioning that you too are experiencing problems in uploading an image - so it is is happening in the Northern Hemisphere too!!

I just tried to upload my Studebaker State Commander, using both methods with one of these coming up with the following:

  • The file 0016.jpg could not be saved. An unknown error has occurred.
  • The file in the Forum Images field was unable to be uploaded.

So the problem still exists.  Well, much to the relief of some folk, this will keep me offline, and with only 28 more to go before hanging up my shingle!!

Cheers, and happy Father's Day, if you celebrate this event today where you are!!

Bruce   (150)

20160904/972/0142

 

 

Richard's picture
Richard
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DTCA MemberFrance

Hello friends.

My french  "coupé Studebaker"

The only one I have, but this one, it's sure, is not repainted !!smileysmiley

Friendly yours

Richard

Impossible to load the photo !!

 

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Hi Richard, I am eager to see your 24O!

And what's your opinion about mine?

In the mean time, as another image uploading test, this photo of the new addition surrounded by some British contemporaries. Kind regards, Jan 

Richard's picture
Richard
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DTCA MemberFrance

to night, it will work !

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

Thanks to all, for your thoughts and examples shown (Bruce, nice green one you have!). Still, it all does not stop me wonder/worry and I managed to take two more pictures that may be more unveiling.

One of both grilles next to each other, frontal. See the sharp hand painted edges of the silver of the red one opposed to the faint, mask produced contours of the grey (British) one. By the way, please note the rather deep recesses that the frontal die part left on the French version, above the head lamps. Also: are more badges seen picked out in silver, as on my French one?

And the other photo with more flood light, demonstrating the vanishing line contours of the boot and the very smooth continuation (without ridge) below and above the rear windows on the red one. Kind regards, Jan  

 

janwerner's picture
janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

See also http://dtcawebsite.com/comment/10234#comment-10234 for the confusing Atlas model below: