Thanks, Ron, for sharing this detail with us. I didn't know of the driver's head difference in the French casting. If I had only one ...

The French catalogues keep showing the initial version, not the one with the flat cap, as demonstrated by this 1963 catalogue detail picture.

Kind regards, Jan

Not sure if such a drivers head is not the result of some "private modification". I have all the three versions - the first one has a smooth radiator, the second version is the one with the squared radiator grille, the third version too, but with convex hubs - and all of them have the driver with the rounder helmet.
Walter

Hi everyone;
I will look deeply at my Ferrari 23j to see if I have one driver with a flat helmet.

Anyway, there are two others differences which prove that there were 2 moulds :

The pipes on the left

The sleeves of the driving suit have not the same sizes

Cheers
Richard

I do not think that there were two different castings, but rather some irregularities in the process, both as far as the exhaust stubs as well as the helmets are concerned. The pictures shows (left to right) the first, second and third version of the Ferrari, with slightly irregular pipes.

Regards
Walter

Hi Walter.
And why the sleeves have not the same lenght ?

Here under, shades of red.

I have 18 Ferrari 23j/511 and I will compare closely next weekend

Cheers

Richardf

I found these drawings in the french Dinky Toys club journal :

Type 1 above and type 2 below.

Richard

Beside the shape of the helmet and the sleeves of the pilot, there is another casting difference to the English 23H Ferrari: the shape of the opening in the tail end, where the base plate rests. The French Ferrari has a pointed end, whereas the English Ferrari's is slightly rounded.

Walter

Here is my french Ferrari team :

the two below show the difference between the transfers :
The first one is a single and the second one is a double. We can see the black guide mark line in the middle.

and the front :

cheers

Richard

Here is mine. In the back row of the drawer are all the English Ferrari, with different baseplates, nose cones and hubs, in the front row the three versions of the French Ferrari, with different grilles and hubs. One the left are the two first issues from 1953 and 1956, below left the two announcements from the British Meccano Magazine and the French Dinky Catalogue and below right the original Ferrari 500 with the 4 short exhaust stubs from early 1952.

Walter

Hi Richard and Walter,
Wonderful collections of Ferraris you both have there.
The French market was so lucky to get their Ferrari in red, I presume blue / yellow was authentic on the English one? I must admit my knowledge of the real thing is pretty poor.
Chris Warr.

Blue/yellow were the Argentinian racing colours. But strange enough, there wasn't any Argentinian pilot driving a Formula 2 Ferrari at the time, when Dinky Toys England launched their 23H Ferrari. Perhaps it was a tribute to the great Juan Manuel Fangio from Argentine, World Champion 1951 on a red Alfa Romeo 159 Alfetta. But in 1952 Fangio drove a Maserati, not a Ferrari.
Walter

Thank you Chris.
Walter, I have only 3 versions of the english 23H.
I am going to open a new thread with it and it will be very interesting if you could complete it with yours.
Friendly yours.
Richard

The only French Ferrari I have, 'comme neuf', a recent addition to the collection and a late replacement for a play worn example which I bought and sold long ago. I do not intend to collect all various racing numbers ... ;)

My modest Ferrari collection, here it is in the company of the two Liverpool made Ferrari's I have.

And the design drawing for this one, dating of 22 August 1955 and three times bigger than the actual model.

Kind regards, Jan

That's a beauty Jan, superb condition.
Chris Warr.

Hi Jan.
is it a type one or a type 2 ?
Kind rgds
Richard

Thanks Chris, I really love it in this condition. French Dinkies are not my specialization, but I like to collect this type of 'Anglo-French counterparts'.
Richard, it is the second type, with 'calandre quadrill

I have listed three variations of this Ferrari but Richard can probably add some :

Yes Jacques, at least one !

1960 Ref. 511 numbers 22 to 27, cross-hatched front grille, concave hubs.

That's make a lot of items !

Merci Richard pour cette information fondamentale.

Jacques.

To be or not to be complete ! that is the question !
Richard

When re-attaching the loose end flap of my Ferrari box I noticed that the lug includes the information that red is the racing colour of Italy. Not a shocking surprise, but I didn't notice that text before.
Kind regards, Jan

Hi Jan.
Normally, it's printed on both end flaps.
Friendly yours.
Richard

Richard,

The pilot's sleeve difference between the two Ferraris is due to the fact that there was only one die which had two cavities and of course two different cavities can never be exactly identical.

I suppose that to-day with the cutting of cavities by spark erosion, they can be identical.

Jacques.