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dinkycollect
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-170 Lincoln Continental (1964-70)

 

                                                                    base of the Nicky Toys Lincoln Continental

 

Dear Johnny,

 

This is the answear to your post #1321 in "new arrivals"

I also do not like to contradict fellow members but I must confirm some facts.

 

I am very sorry but the Lincoln Continental was only the 9 th. Dinky Toys to be made at the scale of 1/42. The first one was the Morris 1100 ref. 140 which has been issued in February 1963 as evidenced by the Toyman on page 70 of the Meccano Magazine of that month.

 

Why the scale was changed from 1/38 to 1/42 has not been explained but this has not been influenced by Spot-Ons as Lines Bros. bought Meccano years two years after the tools for the Morris had been mede.

Why the reference number under the Lincoln has been blanked out is also unexplained as there are no other Dinky Toys using the same casting. As this change seems to have been made before the model was launched,  the only possibility I can think of is that the number was wrong and could not be erased.

johnnyangel's picture
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So if the Morris is 1/42nd (which I verified by looking up the real car's length) and was the first in this scale, what are the others -- every car released in 1963 and 1964?

The base of the Continental shown above has the maker's name totally blanked out. Mine has "Nicky" cast in. As Nicky collectors know, there are many variations of their models, including some that still say Dinky, and some where the D and the n have been scratched over with a N and a c very crudely!

 

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Here is the list of 1/42 models for the 100 series but there are many others in the 200, 300, 400, 600 and 900 series. See the scales page of the Encyclopaedia.

The list below is sorted by date of issue, not by ref. number.

                                 

I can see that the base of your Nicky Continental is different from mine as it has the marque NICKY cast in. Could you please post or email me a large square picture of your Conti base for the Encyclopaedia.

All the best.

Jacques

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Jacques, thank you for the list. I did look for this on my copy of the Encyclopaedia but did not notice the "scales" entry on the main menu!

Obivously I was not aware that various of the 1963 models (such as the Spitfire, Cortina, and Holden) were 1/42nd scale, since they are still reasonable in size. I guess that when this scale was applied to the giant American cars, that's when it gets out of hand!

Since this change happened ahead of the Lines Brothers acquisition, I guess that some marketer at Meccano Ltd. decided that the larger scale would make it easier to add opening doors and other features (though Meccano France had no problem doing this much more delicately at 1/43rd), or perhaps, ironically, they were even trying to compete with Spot-On.

I will happily send on a picture of my Nicky Continental's base when I can. As you know, it is difficult to get the lighting such that it brings out the lettering sufficiently, esp. with the very glossy black paint on the base of this model, but I shall try!

 

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Johnny

Yes taking pictures of the base plates is difficult but I have found a good way to do it.

Get outside, but not in the sun that is where you get the best light. Hold the model in one hand and the camera in the other then turn your self around and move the model so that you find the best picture and clic.

This is how I have made the photos for the Encyclopaedia and for three books.

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Why has the ref number been erased from the base plate of the Lincoln Conti is a question for Vic. He is the only one who might be able to answer this question.

I am still looking for a picture of the base of this model with the holes to fasten it to the cristal boxes base Can some body help me ?

Jacques

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Jacques -- you already have a picture of the 170 base (credited to QDT) with the holes in the Encyclopedia, which I doubt I could improve upon. (Perhaps you too need to do as I have ... copy the Encyclopedia onto a tablet device so you can look at it at a moment's notice!)

Regarding the number being always covered on the base of this model, I too wonder. As you know, the Lincoln was introduced in autumn 1964 and was one of the first Dinky Toys both to be in 1/42nd scale and to have the Spot-On style wheels. It has always seemed very Spot-On like to me and, given the quickness of its appearance after the Tri-ang takeover, I wonder if it hadn't been designed (like the later "Big 6") as a Spot-On in the first place.That would explain the alteration of the number, if it hadn't simply been a mistake ...

 

MUMBY655
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Jacques

I can think of only one possible reason for removal of the model number. It was done prior to the tooling going to 'Nicky' toys, or removed by Nicky so as not to confuse with a Binns Road product.

Vic

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johnnyangel
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Vic -- thanks for the thought, but that cannot be it. The issue is that the model number has been removed on every issue of this car, from the first Binns Road issue onwards. Therefore a mistake with the number must have been made, or else (wild speculation on my part) it was Spot-On tooling that had a Spot-On number removed.

Cheers!

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dinkycollect
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Johnny

This is an interesting thought that this model is a Spot-On design and that some (in fact all) of the marking has been blanked out. There are two types of bases, without later with the holes and both have all the Dinky Toys marking on a raised platform which means that all the previous marking has been deleted.
The Spot-On model must have been ready for launching when it was decided to sale it as a Dinky. Tomorrow I will look at the other models from that period as I have a list of the Dinky Toys and Dinky Toys by date of issue.

The base plate with the holes which is in the Encyclopaedia is of the Chilean issue. I am still looking for the same for th British issue.

Good night gentlemen.
 

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Jacques -- I am glad you agree with my suspicion about this model, though I doubt there is any way we can ever provide it. As you say, all the markings on the model are on these raised rectangular platforms which, unless they were trying to show some feature of the car (which I don't think), must be to delete something that was there before.

I believe the baseplate with holes on the English issue looks identical to the Chilean one that you have in the Encyclopedia. (Which makes sense as there are no casting changes on any of the Chilean models as far as I know.) However, when I can I will double-check to make certain.

 

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Jacques -- following up on the above -- you already provided a list of models by date of issue earlier in this thread as part of the discussion about 1/42 scale. As you'll see, while there were some 1/42-scale models that came out before the Lincoln, they all had standard spun wheels as on previous Dinky Toys, and almost all had traditional tinplate bases as well.

The Lincoln was the first to have the Spot-On-style wheels, which does make it the most likely candidate to be a "transition" model.

As a child, I also felt that the two following models -- the Mercedes 600 Pullman and the Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud -- were "intruders" and suspiciously Spot-On-like. I just inspected the bases of these two and do not see any sign of anything being covered up there, except that on the Mercedes there is a circle around the name "Mercedes-Benz 600" where something had been there before.

I suspect Vic can shed more light on this as several of the Mercedes Pullmans in the Encyclopedia are color samples credited to the Vic Mumby collection!

MUMBY655
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Mercedes 600, Rolls Royce Silver Cloud and Lincoln Continental are products of Binns Road not 'Spot On'.

Vic

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johnnyangel
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Thanks, Vic. That is good to know!

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johnnyangel
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Base of the first-type Lincoln, with holes. And Lincolns both Dinky and Nicky. Note that the yellow Nicky has been converted to right-hand drive!